S2E9 What happened to Eastern Airlines Flight 401? with Jozlyn Rocki and Lloyd Waller

Jennifer Field: [00:00:04] Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is season two, episode nine of the Unofficial Official Story. I'm Jennifer and I am happy it's the holidays. My favorite time of year.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:16] I'm Dwayne and I just flew recently and we had to do the landing three times. So this is this is right up my alley today.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:25] And I am Koji and I just got back from Vegas and I tricked my way onto the family boarding pass with my kids. So I had like a C boarding pass on Southwest, which means I was never going to sit with my kid. I went to the boarding gate. I was like, Can I go in earlier so that I could sit with my son? And she said, Well, you know, like there's no more passes. You have to just go but try to get on the boarding pass. They said, How old is the family boarding pass? And they said, six years old and my son is 11. And so she's like, well, just try it. And so we walked in front of all these people To get to the front. And the funniest part was we were played at a baseball tournament and we were playing. We were in front of all the people that we played against, and they're all 11 years old and we walked past all of them. And then we got on the plane and everyone's like, Why are they get on the plane? Why don't they? And then we got on and we sat we sat at the last row, which is great because in Burbank you can get off first.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:01:15] Let me ask you this. Did you guys win that game?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:18] No, We got our asses kicked, so it serves them right.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:01:20] Okay.

Jennifer Field: [00:01:21] This is a podcast where we're going to tell you the official story. So we look at the paranormal conspiracies, unexplained phenomena, cryptids true crime. And by the end of the episode, we're going to tell you what really maybe happened. In this episode. We're asking the question with our guest today who's haunting Eastern Airlines Flight 401. But first, let's introduce our two Guests. Jocelyn Rocki And Lloyd Waller was up. Hey,

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:01:51] Hey,

Jennifer Field: [00:01:51] Welcome. I think we're starting with Jocelyn. We have some info, little bio about you. You are a voice and screen actor. Jocelyn brings real life experience as a wife, boy, mom, dog mom, group fitness instructor, booty specialist, a very cool two years of producing and hosting podcasts and 20 years as an on air radio personality Jocelyn founded, produces and hosts Keeping Up with Chaos Podcasts a fun for Entertainment indie podcast where she brings on rotating guest co hosts to have conversations with all different and diverse guests to chat about. Well, chaos because everyone has a story to share. She also produces Raising Healthy Humans podcast  and voices the intro for that. Recently, Jocelyn co-created and co hosts a new podcast with four other voice and screen actors from the Booth and Beyond podcast, where they document their lives inside and outside the booth from the very start of their voice acting journey. So basically we got a pro in the house. Lloyd is a native of Las Vegas, Nevada, where he graduated from Legacy High School in 2011. He went to the University of Mary in Bismarck, North Dakota, where he graduated with a degree in mass communications, and now he's back home in the 702 okay. He's the co-creator and host of the Broke Black and Board podcast, media specialist, voice actor, improv newbie and first time DM for an absolute mess of a homebrew D&D campaign.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:03:23] You are both voice actors. How did you guys get into voice acting?

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:03:25] Lloyd joins me. He's one of my co creators from the booth and beyond, so we're together on that podcast. It's a new podcast for me. I wanted to be a voice actor since I was 16. I had a friend of mine's dad who was a voice actor like, you know, decades ago, and he said, You have a great voice. And he showed me his studio. That sounds kind of creepy. But. I just kind of set it aside and went to college to be an accountant because I thought that's what I should do. And then I realized that I'm not good with math, so I should probably not do that. And I got into radio, so I was in radio for a long time, moved to Florida, got put on ice, Radio's Fickle and I brought my job virtually before it was cool to be virtual and broadcast from my closet before it was cool to do that. And then they put me on ice and I don't know, I eventually, through podcasting in a friend of mine who's also an improv guy, told me about voiceover and where he was studying. So the rest is right.

Lloyd Waller: [00:04:16] So yeah, I originally went to school for English and I ended up switching to mass communications because I was not a great student and I had a professor who was an English professor. And the same semester I switched to mass communications, this person switched to mass communications and I had a class with them, oral interpretation class, which is basically just, you know, orally interpreting interpretation is a weird word for me, but at the beginning of class, she's like, Lloyd, this semester we're going to bring out the dynamic you, I was like, Oh, I don't know about that. And it's interesting because years later, probably like two years ago now, I'm sitting at my current job and I was I started right before the pandemic. So things were complicated and confusing, but I gotten to a point where I'm like, I don't know if I want to do this. I don't know what I want to do. What can I do that I would still be using my degree and through weird, I feel like I went into like a fugue state because I don't remember how I ended up at the Voice Actor studio where we take classes. But yeah, I started taking classes and I heard that professor in the back of my head. Her name is NIDA. I love her so much she doesn't know I'm doing it, but she'll find out one day and yeah, I've just stuck with it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:33] Lloyd Good meeting you, by the way. And Jocelyn.

Lloyd Waller: [00:05:35] Nice meeting you.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:36] Are we meeting Dynamic Lloyd at this point?

Lloyd Waller: [00:05:38] Well, we'll say that dynamic Lloyd, quote unquote, did not come out that semester, but we're definitely in that phase of my life, I think.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:47] Very nice. Very nice. I liked. I really enjoyed hearing both your bios and Jocelyn. I don't know. I know we're here to talk about something else, but it's mainly because Koji is also I guess he's a boy Dad, you're a boy Mom. And it's interesting that you put boy mom instead of mom. So I was just wondering, what's the reason for that?

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:06:05] That's funny that you said that. I thought for sure you're going to go down the booty specialist route. I mean, for sure. We just went right to boy mom. But that's okay. No, you know, it's funny that you said I just being a boy, mom is just different, you know? I don't know, like, raising boys is different. Different than having girls, you know? And I wear that badge of honor. You know, boys are high maintenance when they're little, and then when they get older, they want nothing to do with you. And so there's a big difference, really. They don't. I have a teenager and he's like, I don't know. And boys are fun. I don't think I was meant to be a girl mom. So I'm proud of being a boy mom.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:06:43] For the booty specialists. As a person who suffers from LBS, which is long back syndrome, if I'm ever in Florida or if you're ever in California, you can help me get over this this lifelong affliction.

Jennifer Field: [00:07:00] Yeah, We should get into it. Right. Let's get this story straight. Let's tell our listeners about Eastern Airlines Flight 401. And let's dive In.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:07:08] Let's do it.

Jennifer Field: [00:07:09] All right. So here are some facts. On December 29, 1972, Eastern Airlines Flight 401 took off from JFK to Miami. And while over the Everglades Flight 401 crashed into the Everglades, killing 101 people. Not all of the people on the flight, but most.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:07:27] What happened Eastern Airlines Flight 401. Simply put, human error. The landing gear indicator was out. The entire cockpit crew became obsessed with figuring out what was happening. And in the process, they did not realize the autopilot had been disconnected, connected. And we're on a slow descent toward the ground, according to the final National Transportation Safety Board report. This is what they said. The failure of the flight crew to monitor the flight instruments during the final 4 minutes of a flight and to detect an unexpected descent soon enough to prevent impact with the ground preoccupation with a malfunction of the nose landing gear position, indicating system distracted the crew's attention from the instruments and allowed the descent to go unnoticed. It's amazing. I actually had a conversation with my son about this where I was telling him, Sometimes you get so focused on these little things, you miss the big picture. And this is literally that thing, right where like the cockpit was really obsessed with this one light issue. Right? And they're so obsessed that they they were totally missed crashing into the ground. There's definitely a big life lesson in this experience, you know what I'm saying?

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:08:30] Absolutely.

Lloyd Waller: [00:08:31] Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:08:31] I mean, it's crazy to be on. Like, could you imagine being on this flight and dying because these people were thinking about a light.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:08:38] And I was thinking about this because we talk about this all the time in voiceover. Like perfect is not the best being, you know, trying to always be perfect or having 100% perfection is not always ideal, you know what I'm saying? Sometimes you got to dirty it up a little bit. And I remember listening that that particular pilot was a perfectionist, right? So he was probably hyper focused on something, you know?

Lloyd Waller: [00:09:02] Right.

Jennifer Field: [00:09:02] So what happened after the crash? Well, after the crash, some of the parts from the crashed Flight 401 were used on other Eastern Airlines planes, which is a practice that still happens today, actually. So, of course, assuming that the parts are safe, it can be reused. So this is where it starts to go wild. According to legend and firsthand accounts, any Eastern Airline plane with parts salvaged from Flight 401 became a hotbed of paranormal activity. So here are a few of the most famous. The vice president of Eastern Airlines boarded a plane from New York and chatted with someone in a pilot's uniform. He later realized that he had been speaking to the pilot of Flight 401, Robert Bob Albin, and another time a pilot was sitting in the first class section of an Eastern Airlines flight. And the flight attendant tried to speak to them, but the passenger was unresponsive. She asked the pilot to talk to the strange passenger, and when he went, he recognized the man as Bob Alvin.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:00] It's super shocking to me that you could reuse parts of a plane.

Jennifer Field: [00:10:04] Yeah, I know. I'm. 

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:10:05] Right. 

Jennifer Field: [00:10:05] I agree with that. I did not know.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:07] Isn't that crazy?

Lloyd Waller: [00:10:07] It's just a weird thing.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:08] Like, for example, like, if you get in a car accident with a baby car seat in your car.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:10:12] Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:12] You can't use that car seat again.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:10:14] No.

Lloyd Waller: [00:10:14] Right, right.

Jennifer Field: [00:10:16] Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:16] But if you get in a plane crash with a plane, you can still use those parts. Like, that's just I mean, I don't know, like, I don't want to be wasteful. And I agree with, like, reusing things. But planes are one of those things I don't want to reuse.

Lloyd Waller: [00:10:28] I mean, I feel like you could just melt it down and make it into something else.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:10:33] Well, and if you think about this, just recently we had hurricane come through. So there's like thousands of cars that got just there in the junkyard because they had you know, they were flooded within three feet of if they're flooded by like up to three feet there, you can't use them. You can't drive them. You've got to get rid of them. So it's like to reuse a part from an airplane crash, Like I just like blows my mind.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:56] Especially where it crashed. You know, it's I mean, I guess it didn't blow up, but it was like in mud and water. It's just.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:11:03] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:03] It's it's outrageous. But I felt like Eastern when you delve into it, there were like this super expensive plane. But like, you know, they didn't spring the extra money to have like the the ground recognition thing working or they disabled this light in the cabin that would have been blinking to let them know they were close to the ground. It's just you know, it's sort of like, I don't know, it's just where they chose to cut corners didn't make sense?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:30] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:31] A flight attendant open up the overhead locker and saw Bob Alvin, another flight attendant. Saw the face of flight engineer Donald Louis Don repo on an oven door. Who said in front of two witnesses, watch out for fire in the plane. On the returning flight, the plane engine failed and had to be shut down.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:49] Wouldn't it be crazy if you saw like a face in a locker?

Lloyd Waller: [00:11:55] I just hate that thought.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:56] Yeah. Would you even stay on the flight? I'd be like, I'm good.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:11:58] No,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:58] I'm gone. Yeah. This is a bad this is a bad sign.

Lloyd Waller: [00:12:02] It's one thing to see a face in an oven door, but if the face tells you something bad is going to happen. It's hard to cope.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:12] Yeah. Final. Final Destination is one of my favorite movies of all time, and I'm here to read the signs. Although I always try to think I'm like, Oh, was that a real sign? Or is that a fake sign?

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:12:21] Right? Oh, my God.

Lloyd Waller: [00:12:24] You mean his vision or. No, We're talking about real life. I'm sorry. I delved way too far in the final destination so quickly.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:12:32] Honestly, if I saw a face or face or heard something, I'd wonder what they put in my drink. Because I'm always on an airplane. I'm like, Get me a glass of wine quick. Because it's like, you know, you have anxiety anyways, being on a plane, you know? So I would be like, What'd you put on my drink? Because, you know, I wouldn't believe it. I wouldn't believe. And then I'd be like, Get me off the plane now.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:52] Here's a random question for you guys. Is anybody ever walked off a plane because of a bad feeling?

Lloyd Waller: [00:12:56] No.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:12:57] Wow.

Jennifer Field: [00:12:58] No,

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:12:59] No, I will now.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:01] No, I haven't. But I was I was on a plane during this. I think the second or third Ebola kind of scare. Yeah, that was scary because we weren't wearing masks yet. And this one guy was kind of coughing and everyone was looking at him like, Oh, this guy's got Ebola. And that was scary. I probably thought about it on that flight more than I have in any other plane, but I didn't I didn't get off.

Jennifer Field: [00:13:21] Okay. So this is from simple flying dot com. The link, of course, will be in the show notes one day. The crew were in the cockpit discussing engineering when they discovered Don was sitting with them. He warned them of a faulty electrical circuit which was then found and replaced. Bob was seen doing his pre-flight checks of the aircraft and told the ground staff it was all okay as he'd already completed the checks. The pilot was unnerved by what had happened and cancelled the flight whilst in the cockpit One day preparing for the flight, the pilot heard loud knocks from under the floor beneath him. He opened the trap door to see Don looking at him, who then promptly disappeared. He wanted to look further and found a problem that could have caused a serious accident. So ghost sightings or whatever these are are happening.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:11] Well, you know, one of the things I was thinking about when I was reading all this stuff and doing research is that like these people are stuck doing their jobs over and over and over. I mean, that sounds pretty terrible. Like it'd be like me emailing, like emailing people, like, all day for the rest of. 

Jennifer Field: [00:14:25] Purgatory.

Lloyd Waller: [00:14:27] Maybe they just have that level of commitment.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:29] Yeah. And they want to make amends. They want to make amends for what happened. So.

Jennifer Field: [00:14:34] Yeah.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:14:34] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:35] You know, like, they probably felt really bad about what happened and they're just trying to avoid any other crashes, you know?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:43] So I have a, I have a horror story for you, Dwayne for all of eternity. You have to be on stage. You have to, like, tell jokes for the rest of eternity. I mean, at the beginning it's fine. And then at some point you're like, Yeah, at some point you'd be like, Oh my God, can I get off the stage?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:00] I don't know. But if I but if I told the joke that killed 99 people, you know, then I might be okay with it. You know what I mean. Right? These guys and I think I actually think that calling it a human error I think is an overstatement. I think it was it was a perfect storm of things, not only human error. In fact,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:23] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:23] I think human error was the last thing it was because it was on autopilot and he touched you brush against something and then the autopilot cuts off. That's that's ridiculous. So. 

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:15:32] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:33] Anyway, yeah, I think if I don't know what joke I would tell that would kill 99 people. But yeah it might be I might want to make amends for eternity, you know.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:46] Right.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:15:47] Well I was also thinking that like, you know, if he was a perfectionist and he was like he had 30,000 logged hours of flying, right? So if they were telling him that they were saying it was his error, I could see if he was a ghost, that he would be pissed. Like, this is not my responsibility. You know, maybe they like, covered it up or something. I don't know, like and he was trying to he was hanging around, like, just to prove a point, you know? I don't know.

Lloyd Waller: [00:16:14] I think an important question in regards to whether or not they feel regret is whether or not it ever registered that they had died in the first place.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:16:24] Yes. Yeah, exactly.

Lloyd Waller: [00:16:26] Because, I Mean

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:27] right.

Lloyd Waller: [00:16:27] There at the front of the plane, they likely died on impact.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:16:30] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like denial.

Lloyd Waller: [00:16:33] So they might not even know that they're dead.

Jennifer Field: [00:16:35] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:35] Wow.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:16:36] They're just continuing to live their lives. That's good. That's a good note. Yeah. All right, so the paranormal activity wasn't just with the plane. People around the crash site reported seeing ghosts and strange lights. Here's a quote for an alleged witness. I was just frog gigging. I don't even know what gigging is, by the way. I just thought that was interesting for a frog Gigging went a face, looked up at me from below the surf. A woman's face screaming up spooked me silly. Never been back to that. Since that moment around here, we do our best to avoid that area.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:17:02] Wow.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:17:02] Chills. Like I Literally have chills right now. Seriously my hair is standing up on my arm.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:17:07] Yeah, that's. That's crazy.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:17:09] I believe it.

Jennifer Field: [00:17:10] You believe the sightings?

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:17:10] Yeah, I do. I mean, it validates. I have to tell you. Okay, Let me. Can I share a little something with you guys? I seriously think my property is. It's a new house, but I think my property is haunted. Like, we've had some stuff that's happened, and it's like. I don't know, like, I. I just wonder, you know, this validates the fact that, like, maybe something occurred on this land of property or this whole land that's being developed so quickly that's aggravating some spirits that are not happy that our house is here. You know, that's what I was thinking.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:17:43] Oh, my God. What's that behind You?

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:17:44] Stop it.

Jennifer Field: [00:17:49] Give us an example. Give us like the weirdest or most recent example of something that happened.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:17:55] Late at night and the doorbell rang and we have ring, you know, and there's nobody there. And we watched the entire video and there was nobody there. And I was convinced that there was a spirit like my arm hair was standing up, my husband was convinced, we were super convinced. And then I had to talk myself out of it and, you know, rationalize the whole situation because it happened a couple of times. And it happened when we first moved in, too. And I was like, No, it's just a tree frog. It's just a tree frog because, you know, there's lizards and frogs and and we have spiders too. And I talked to someone who's in sort of that paranormal activity arena and they're like, It could have been a spider. Yeah, it could have been a spider. So I'm just going to go with that.

Jennifer Field: [00:18:33] The door ringing the door? Yeah, the spider was very heavy. You guys got big spiders over there, huh?

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:18:37] Yeah.

Jennifer Field: [00:18:40] But that is kind of freaky,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:18:41] Right? Did the spider also move the couch? 

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:18:45] Exactly.

Lloyd Waller: [00:18:46] She did say big spiders.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:18:47] I said big.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:18:48] Yeah. Oh, is that a spider behind your Jocelyn? Sorry. Okay. That was. That was a callback joke. Dwayne. I'm a professional comedian, too.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:18:57] However, not everyone believes these paranormal stories are real. According to Admiral Cloud Burg, a blog that analyzes airplane crashes is a simple explanation. This is how they explain the strange phenomenon around Flight 401. The story seems to have originated in the 1973 Flight Safety Foundation article about an engine failure on another Eastern Airlines plane. What's up? Eastern Airlines? Get your Get Your Stuff Together, which jokingly described the pilot thinking he saw the ghost of Don Ripple. Someone took this attempt at humor too seriously and the story spread from there, often being taken as cannon, even though no one saw a ghost until after the story was published. Nor was there any evidence that equipment from Flight 401 was actually salvaged.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:19:44] Oh, see, that's how I joke. Dwayne could could kill 99 people. Right? Somebody takes it the wrong way, right? Maybe. Maybe Hitler was a comedian and then all of a sudden everyone's like, Oh, he's he's actually a dictator. I'm just kidding.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:19:56] You're right. Someone takes it the wrong way. But it's like, I don't know. It's like telling me you ate a hotdog and you're like, Oh, this hotdog has wasabi in it. And then like, I eat a hotdog three weeks later. And then just because you said that now I think my hot dog has wasabi doesn't make sense. Like I think you can't inception people to that extent.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:20:16] That was the most random example I ever heard.

Jennifer Field: [00:20:22] Wasabi in your hot dog. Oh, God.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:20:24] Yeah, right. That's actually sounds pretty Good, though.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:20:28] It does, actually. Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:20:30] However, it should be noted that Eastern Airlines reportedly removed all the salvaged parts of Flight 401 from their planes.

Jennifer Field: [00:20:36] So what do you guys think? Did the ghosts of Flight 401 haunt other planes? So when we return, we're going to put our minds together. We're going to meld them and figure out what really maybe happened. Now that we've discussed the facts, let's put down our theories.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:20:53] This one is tough because I actually believe that what happened, I believe that, like I'm here for the ghost story. So what I will say is this Not only are the pilots haunting planes because they're still doing their job and it only takes any itty bitty piece of that plane for the spirit to attach to it. But I also think every other thing on that plane is also haunted. So I like to think like, you know, like the guys who are frog fishing and they came and helped the wreckage site. Like maybe they took a tackle box, a fish tackle box. And now whenever they go fishing, it's like easy, easy peasy, because as a ghost, it's like, yo, the fish are here, go over there. You know what I mean? So I think every every piece from that plane, every person who died is somewhere helping people do whatever it is they do. So like, if you can get a piece of it, like if there was a great salesman on that plane and you can get his piece of his luggage or something, then boom, you have access to him and he'll be in the room with you telling you how to always be closing. You know what I mean? Um. Or abs always be spooking, as it were. Yeah, I think that and only the reason the pilots, they have a high profile job but I think that the whole entire plane is haunted. And, you know, I wish that someone could sort of link it all together. We'd find that there's case after case Non plane related things where these people are trying to help out. That's my theory.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:22:25] So my theory is this. You guys have all heard of the Mandela effect, right? Or that's where we're like all kind of believe that we've. Like, for example, like, what's a good one? Like, the original one is Mandela died like in the nineties but then he obviously didn't die. But we all remember that he did die. Right. And to me, the best explanation of that is it's a different it was just a different timeline, right? It became a new timeline. And sometimes the timelines cross and sometimes they get all mixed up. And that's why, like Bernstein Bears is another one right where we we think that spelled a certain way or I swear, Shaq was in a movie called Shazam, right? Or no, not. Not Shaq.

Lloyd Waller: [00:22:57] Sinbad.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:22:58] Sinbad. Sinbad was Shazam, right? I swear I saw that movie. So that's. That's just where that's just where we. Got promised. Right?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:23:05] So you're saying you're saying Sinbad was not and what we call Shazam?

Lloyd Waller: [00:23:09] No. Gosh, no, he was not.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:10] No, he was not in it. Allegedly. Allegedly. But in in the in the timeline I was in, it actually happened.

Lloyd Waller: [00:23:19] No,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:19] It actually happened.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:23:20] No, he's absolutely in a movie where he's a genie. So I don't know.

Lloyd Waller: [00:23:24] No, no,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:25] No, no.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:23:28] Well, we were in the same timeline, Koji, because I remember that.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:31] Yeah, me and you. So, so to go back to the to the plane now, I think that what happened was they just in another timeline, they didn't crash. They figure it out, they aborted, they realized that they had pushed the, the autopilot and then they fix it, they land. And so that in that timeline they just kept going. And so the reason why they're haunting is it just seems like haunting. But in reality, they're just continuing on with their timeline, which was they're fine, everything's there. You know, I can't really explain the head in the oven thing. Maybe he was like behind her. And the other thing you could just see, I don't know. I don't know how it works, but but it's Mandela effect is what I'm saying.

Jennifer Field: [00:24:10] So basically, like, we believe it happened, but it happened in another in another timeline.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:24:18] Yeah, in another timeline. They didn't Crash. And so they're just but then once the reason why we're seeing the ghosts is because sometimes our timeline gets all.

Jennifer Field: [00:24:27] Yeah. And so you think you think you're living in that other timeline. Yeah. Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:24:31] Yeah. Or they think that they're living, but we're seeing them just live their normal lives.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:24:35] Like a portal. Like a portal opens up and.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:24:37] Yeah, exactly.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:24:38] Or like, overlaps a little bit, right?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:24:41] Yes, Correct. Okay.

Jennifer Field: [00:24:42] Got it. All right. So my theory is that there is a guy that wanted to, I guess, carry on the legend. And so there was somebody that, like, made it his mission to dress up as the Don and the other one, Bob, that was my theory, that there are somebody there sort of like the D.B. Cooper episode we did once, where everybody wants to be connected to this mystery and everybody wants to be D.B. Cooper. And so there's a guy that goes on planes and likes to, like, freak the staff out. And so that's that's my theory, is that there's a mystery. There was a mystery person that for a little while was trying to spook people by dressing up. And so there was actually somebody there. And then, I don't know the logistics of where they went and things like that. And then the oven thing that maybe they were standing behind and they saw the reflection. Wasn't there one claim that they were up above in the storage, What is that called?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:25:45] Yeah,

Jennifer Field: [00:25:45] The overhead.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:25:46] Yeah.

Jennifer Field: [00:25:47] So he was up there one day hiding the little guy. That's my theory.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:25:50] So it sounds kind of like the. Like a bad guy in Scooby Doo.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:25:54] Yeah. I was thinking that.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:25:57] The bad guy is Scooby Doo. They always, like, pretend to be like a monster. Or they pretend to be.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:26:01] Yes.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:26:02] They pretend to be right. So, like, like, you know, they're like, I would have made it had it not been for those pesky kids.

Lloyd Waller: [00:26:08] It's always the seemingly responsible adult.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:26:12] It's always the seemingly responsible.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:26:13] And there was, like, a lab that took elaborate measures.

Jennifer Field: [00:26:16] Yeah. Yeah.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:26:18] Now that's perfect, because I'm going to bounce off of Jennifer. So I'm a skeptic believer and I was thinking I and I'm also in on team Dwayne because I totally, 100% believe that they were being haunted. But then my logical brain kicks in and I'm like, how could that even be possible? Right? And so I was thinking that because if you go back to the two stewardesses where they're talking about going up and down the elevators, right. And they're in the kitchen and they thought one was there and then the other came down and they were going up and down. And the one thought she thought for sure, Denise, the stewardess, was playing a prank on her and that she was actually in the cupboard. But they both felt like they were the other was there when they had their passing each other. Going up and down in the different levels. So that got me thinking that maybe these people from this company are like jokesters, right? Like they like to play pranks on each other and so that maybe like someone came up with like a hologram, right? And it was like it wasn't actually the pilot sitting there because they literally thought he was right there and they were trying to talk to him that maybe someone came up with a Scooby Doo elaborate concept and like came up with a hologram to, like, really give it to him. Right? You know, like, like a big prank. But I still believe that, like, this whole story validates that. Like, you know, the reason why I don't buy pre-owned or, like, used stuff is because there's energy connected to stuff. We're all energy, right? And I'm kind of a little bit woo. And so, like, if you have, it could be just left behind energy, you know, that could be there on those parts, especially if those individuals didn't realize that they died. You know, So I'm I don't know. I'm conflicted. Conflicted. Sorry.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:58] What I like about the hologram thing, too, is that, you know, that guy who was a code buster in World War Two touring, I think his name is Alan Turing. His whole thing with how you test AI is if, like, you're talking to a computer and you don't know it's a computer. Right? And so even if they weren't pranksters, if someone wanted to test their hologram software, it's like, okay, let's produce this hologram of this guy that these people know and let's see if they call BS or if they truly think they saw him. And if they think it's a ghost, then that means your hologram is good and ready to go, you know?

Lloyd Waller: [00:28:33] Yeah, a hologram. Turing test.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:28:35] Yeah. Well, there's a lot of people that reported these sightings, you know, So maybe they were testing the theory. Someone was testing the theory.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:43] Right? Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:28:43] Interesting. Interesting.

Lloyd Waller: [00:28:45] Oh, man. Mine is wild.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:28:47] Oh Great. That's even better.

Lloyd Waller: [00:28:49] It's somewhat of a mix between Dwayne's and Koji's. I like to blame things on the government because the government does things and everybody's like, no, the government would never do that. And then 50 years later, the government is like, We totally did that. Sorry, and everyone ignores it. So I, I think barring the fact that it's fully paranormal, that these people were part of a secret government project that worked on Internet interdimensional.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:29:24] I love It.

Jennifer Field: [00:29:26] Bring it, bring it.

Lloyd Waller: [00:29:27] Where in like going back to Joz's example with the elevators, you know how they always talk about the butterfly effect and not like affecting people, you know, and would have it. And it's like, Oh, well, one of these people was was in the kitchen as these two ladies were passing by and then they left, which is Why Because they didn't want to screw up the timeline, but they needed the plane to crash so that whatever the government wants to happen happened. And these people are just teleporting all the Planes and doing what they got to. Do to make sure the timeline is safe and then leave.

Jennifer Field: [00:30:02] By or as ordered by the government, right?

Lloyd Waller: [00:30:04] Yes.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:30:04] Yeah.

Lloyd Waller: [00:30:05] And they've gotten so good at it that now. No, nobody notices them and that's why it all stops.So. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:30:13] That's funny because to call back to our episode about D.B. Cooper, remember the D.B. Cooper thing was.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:30:17] Yeah, yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:30:18] The theory we came up with, I came up with was that it was a tourist trap where you could pretend to be the year in the future and you could pretend to be D.B. Cooper. And so you pay to go back in time and sit on that plane and be D.B. Cooper.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:30:30] Wow.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:30:31] And so maybe similar or something similar. Yeah, but there has been, you know, like one of the most famous I don't know, most famous. But there's a case about the Philadelphia experiment. And you guys ever heard of the Philadelphia experiment?

Jennifer Field: [00:30:40] Yeah, jog oour memory. I've heard of it, but I Forget. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:30:43] It's about this. This plane. Sorry, This ship, this warship that was allegedly like they figured out how to do inter-dimensional time travel. And so, like, allegedly, like, disappear, and then it reappeared later somewhere else. I mean, it's I think it's pretty much been debunked already, but it's kind of like similar similar theories.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:31:01] I believe that I believe I mean, I believe the energy. And yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:05] So Lloyd's theory is that these guys are timeline hopping as per the government and occasionally getting seen or they back in the day, they were occasionally getting seen. Is that right?

Lloyd Waller: [00:31:16] Yeah. And they've gotten so good at it now people just don't catch it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:19] That's pretty dope. Have you guys seen the show counterpart? It's like man in the high Castro. Both shows are really good and it's it's like two it's a two timeline three timeline kind of show. It's really interesting.

Jennifer Field: [00:31:30] Okay. So we're at the point in the show where we need to pick the unofficial official story, one that will for once and for all, answer this question. So what do you guys think? Which theory are we going to go with?

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:31:42] I liked everybody's theory, but I feel like Lloyd took a little piece of everybody's theory and just summarized all wrapped in a nice little bow and package and tied it, you know, gave it to us. So.

Lloyd Waller: [00:31:52] Oh, my, thank you.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:53] Yeah, I'm the same. I really enjoyed everyone's theory. Like, you know, I like the alternate. Time lines. I like the trickery. The guy in the mask, the Scooby Doo villain. I love the holograms. Yeah, I would say I would say Lloyd's as well. The thing is, when you think of government, especially the ones, the superpowers, and they just they don't want to lose, right? So not only are they fighting present wars and current and future wars, they're fighting past wars. Right? Because they would love. To go back and rewrite what happened if they lost. I'm sure I'm sure someone in Germany is like we we could have won World War Two. Let's go back and figure it out. So I just love that. I love that theory. I love it.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:32:34] Good thing we didn't lose Vietnam, right? Oh, no.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:32:40] And the thing is, they're not. And anything they probably they probably went back in game playing Vietnam over and over again. And each time we lost. So they were like, we don't need to go back to that again. I like to think that. But I'll add this to Lloyd's thing is that, you know, there's the Men in Black movie. I don't know why. I just think these guys are the men in pink. Yeah. Or some some other color. I don't know. But. But it's definitely Lloyd's theory. I enjoyed It.

Lloyd Waller: [00:33:03] Well, thank you.

Jennifer Field: [00:33:04] I vote for Dwayne or Jocelyn. The theory that that there is ghosts and that they were seeing sightings of spirits and that those parts of the plane were haunted. Because I just want Ghost to be real. And I do. In my heart I believe that ghosts are real.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:19] I like Lloyd's is because I just think if the government is so petty and like, it's like, say we are mad, like we could go back in time and do lots of things like to do that is something the government would do. Like just something so petty of like that has really no consequence, really of anything. I love that they would do that because that's exactly the kind of beer they're kind of bureaucrats that I know and love. Yes. Like to do the little things that make no sense, you know? Right.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:43] Oh, yeah. I also like, think sometimes I look at like even something like the pyramids. I feel like someone in the future who wasn't on the winning side went back to rewrite the whole entire timeline, but they didn't quite go back far enough. So that's why we have things like pyramids and things like that that don't seem to make sense given what people could do at the time. It's just because that there's a there's a break in the timeline and that's why those things exist.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:34:11] I was thinking that the ghosts are real and the parts did haunt the plane, right? But that like maybe because there were so many people reporting it and then they kept covering up the reports. Right. So like the upper the people on the upper ranks of the of the airplane company Eastern, they maybe turned around and they were the ones that pranked them all because they were like, ha ha. If you really think that your our airplanes are haunted, we'll make sure that it really is haunted. And then they brought in the holograms. Oh, you know, just just stick it to them, you know.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:34:43] Or to make it more ridiculous, like the more ridiculous it is that the less people believe the other, more tangible cases.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:34:50] Right. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:34:50] So, Lloyd, I assume you want to vote for yours, but You know,

Lloyd Waller: [00:34:53] I Mean, there's that, you know, bias. But I will say I think I'm all over the place because I never am like, oh, that couldn't be real. Like, I absolutely believe that it could be a timeline thing or government agents or ghosts. I've had my own experience with paranormal activities, so I'm like, I absolutely believe, you know, if it's not government agents or timeline stuff, it's ghosts.

Jennifer Field: [00:35:19] Oh,

Lloyd Waller: [00:35:19] The only thing I struggle with is that like and this is super pseudo science. Nobody knows how paranormal stuff works, but I feel like it would take such a tremendous amount of energy for objects that were related to the crash to maintain, like the ability to haunt people long after and like so far away.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:35:42] Interesting.

Lloyd Waller: [00:35:43] But I think Koji's. And now I'm like going to be thinking about the Mandela effect. Like if they're if they're going back and changing the timeline, like there are small things that are like imperceptible that like we would notice, but like there's just a lot more going on. Bernstein Bears. Bernstein So I'm like, I'm just on the fence.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:36:05] Yeah.

Lloyd Waller: [00:36:06] Like it's so hard.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:36:08] Although I'll say, you guys heard the Froot Loops Mandela effect, right? So some people think it's f-r-u-i-t and other people are F-r-o-o-t

Jennifer Field: [00:36:17] Oh,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:36:18] Right, which one is the right one.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:36:20] That is like a mind. I am like, now I'm going to be thinking about this for days. darn it Koji.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:36:28] Yeah, yeah. The Mandela effect is trippy, but it sounds like Lloyd's theory one, though, right? With. Is that right? Am I counting it right?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:36:34] Even if Lloyd doesn't vote for it, it still wins.

Jennifer Field: [00:36:36] All right. So that's the official story. And we're going to take another break. When we return, we'll figure out who each of us will haunt. If you could haunt someone, who would you haunt and why?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:36:50] I gave a lot of thought to this. At first I thought people I didn't like and stuff, but then I realized I want to haunt my ex girlfriend, you know, so that they think like. And whatever happened to Koji? That was the biggest mistake I ever made, was not being with him still. You know, like, I don't know why. It doesn't even matter. I don't think about most of them, but I just think that. That'd be funny to do and just have funny to have.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:10] But Koji, you can haunt ex girlfriends while you're still alive. Just by being.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:16] Yeah, that's true.

Jennifer Field: [00:37:19] Well, so I couldn't decide, but I was the first thing that came to mind was Donald Trump. I would like to haunt him for the rest of his life.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:28] Yes

Jennifer Field: [00:37:29] Make his life miserable.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:30] He probably want you to haunt him Jennifer.

Jennifer Field: [00:37:31] Oh. God. I got to come in disguise as, like, Joe Biden or something. Just like a disguise. But then part of me was, I don't know if haunts the right word, but I was like, I want to be around after I'm gone for my son Abraham. I want to be, like, haunting him, but I don't want to scare him,

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:37:50] Right?

Jennifer Field: [00:37:50] So that's where I was kind of.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:52] A good haunt.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:52] It's interesting. I definitely thought of Trump to not to punish him, but just sort of to like, just to get him to tell the truth.

Jennifer Field: [00:38:00] Oh.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:01] Because, you know, you want to like, does he believe what he's saying? That's. And he's not the only person like this. I know a lot of people who, like, do I lose like, it really just I lose sleep over it. Almost like, do they believe what they're saying? You know, and if and if they do. Okay, that's that's a certain type of bad. And if they don't, that's a different kind. So so yeah, there's that. If not him, I don't know. It's it's tough like, you know, I had to go back and maybe haunt someone like a malcolm X and try to keep him alive, even though I think they were going to kill him no matter what. If I could just keep following him, keep, you know, duck out, you know? 

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:38:37] Yeah. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:40] What he could have become if he if we kept him alive longer. And then by haunting him to you, keep them from selling out. Because if he starts to, like, go to corporate or something, you can just become the mean ghost. You can be like, good ghost, bad ghost. You know what I mean?

Jennifer Field: [00:38:57] This is kind of like the Patrick Swayze ghost, right? Where he's, like, trying to protect.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:39:00] Yeah,

Jennifer Field: [00:39:01] With Demi Moore. Is that what happens in the movie?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:02] Right. Right.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:39:03] I love that movie.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:05] And Dwayne, you can have the pottery scene with Malcolm X, too.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:39:09] Oh, my God. That's a vision.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:10] That's right. That's right.

Jennifer Field: [00:39:20] I think you'd be down on Dwayne. Would be. So whatever. Whatever it takes. Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:25] Whatever it takes.

Lloyd Waller: [00:39:26] It's like This is from the future.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:27] By any means Necessary.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:39:32] That's funny. I was thinking Ebenezer Scrooge because Jennifer is saying that she's so happy the holidays are here, you know, and the ghosts come and haunt him to make him be a better person or to make better choices right in life. And so that's what I was thinking. That's what I was thinking about.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:46] So who who do you hunt specifically?

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:39:48] Well, you were you got my like my brain juices flowing. So I was like, am I haunting to be mean? Am I haunting like, you know, my husband? Because, like, you know, what am I doing? Like, does it mean haunting? Is it good Haunting and like, Jennifer saying, like, I would want to see my boys and make sure that they're okay and like, watch out over them. But then I was like, Yeah, good, haunting. But then I was thinking I might want to haunt Jason Momoa. I'm just saying because, I mean.

Jennifer Field: [00:40:13] I think that's a good haunting too.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:40:15] I know, right? He's pretty hot. Like, you know

Jennifer Field: [00:40:17] He's pretty beautiful.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:40:19] There's a wind blowing in your room. Sorry. Your clothes just blew off. I don't know.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:40:25] Right. Right. 

Lloyd Waller: [00:40:26] Oh, man. So I definitely am on the train of wanting to haunt in, like, a haunting Scrooge McDuck way. Elon Musk Absolutely.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:40:37] Oh, I knew it.

Lloyd Waller: [00:40:38] I immediately. I knew immediately. I have a real like, problem with Elon Musk is there's no such thing as an ethical billionaire. And I like people just fanboy over him so much. It's ridiculous. And just because he has money and I always do this, I go back to what was it last year the World Health Organization was like, Elon Musk could solve world hunger with $7 Billion. And he was like, Prove it. And then they did. But it was only a plan that would have worked for three years. And everybody on Twitter is like, Oh, see, they prove that he can't do it, blah, blah, blah. And it's like, well, he makes over $21 Billion a year. So for less than a third of what he made last year, which will increase the next year, he could solve world hunger for three years. You're telling me it's not worth it? And it's like really.

Jennifer Field: [00:41:29] Would be worth it.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:41:30] Yeah, I'm not I'm not a big fan of Elon Musk, but I would just say if he was trying to save like save humanity with giving people $3 billion, I would be really suspicious of his like, that's like an evil mastermind Superhero kind of plan Right? I'm going to feed everybody.

Jennifer Field: [00:41:50] So thank you so much, Joz and Lloyd, for coming on with us. This was such a great episode. So glad you guys were here. Fellow podcasters, you're pros in this, so please tell us where people can follow you and listen to the podcasts.

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:42:05] Thank you so much for inviting us to come on and hang out. We I love listening to your podcast. I think I want to Say this in the beginning, I think your podcast is really. Cool. Like I love listening to your episodes and yeah, I just I'm a big podcast listener too, so I'm a consumer of podcast. You can listen to Keeping Up with Chaos and all the the regular Apple, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. Same with from the booth and beyond. From the booth and beyond. We're we're kind of a soft launch. We're kind of new. So you don't have a website, but keeping up with chaos, keeping up with chaos dot net.

Lloyd Waller: [00:42:37] You can find me at Droid Waller Underscore on Instagram and Droid Waller on Twitter. You can find the Black Bored podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, wherever you listen to podcasts. We're in like a little bit of a hiatus because life, so many people moving and getting new jobs and stuff. But we have a ton of content you can go back and listen to.

Jennifer Field: [00:43:00] And thank you all so much for listening. Shout out to the unofficial official story. Listeners. Thank you. Keep doing the ratings and the reviews on our new RSS feed, please, and we appreciate you because there's almost 3 million podcasts and we're honored that you've chosen ours to listen to today. Please check out our website, Unofficial Official Story dot com. We have our show notes there and you can hear our past episodes. Be sure to come back next month to find out the answer to the question. Is Cardi B an industry plant?

Jocelyn Rocki: [00:43:28] What do you mean, like an actual plant? Like she a Tree? I don't know.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:35] So basically an industry plan is basically means that instead of it being organic, like we all think of this like idea that these musicians or whoever could be like organically popular, like they just kind of like grow like an industry plant just means that this label or some rich people basically backed you through to the point that you became successful because of their help. In other words, it's not organically they became successful because of like some other force within the record industry. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you guys so much. Thank you. Bye, everybody.

Jennifer Field: [00:44:04] Thank you. Bye, everyone.