S1E12 Was Gangster Rap Created & Pushed to Send More People to Prison? With Rapper Ras Kass

Jennifer Field: [00:00:05] Welcome to episode number 12 of the unofficial official story, I'm Jennifer, I am the fearless investigator. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:10] And I'm Koji, the so-called chief of

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:12] The show. Yes, and I'm Dwayne the guy writing jokes for the class clown, the man behind the man, if you will.

Jennifer Field: [00:00:19] So this is a podcast where we tell you the official story. We look at the paranormal conspiracies, unexplained phenomena, cryptids and even true crime.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:27] And in this episode we're asking the question was gangster rap created and pushed to send more people to prison?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:32] And by the end, we'll tell you what really maybe happened

Jennifer Field: [00:00:35] Before we meet our guest, our extra special guests today. We just want to let you know that this is our last episode of the season.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:43] Yay, Oh, is it a yay or is it a ahh?

Jennifer Field: [00:00:45] It's an ahh? 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:46] No it's a yay because you made it to the end and there'll be another season?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:49] Yes, true.

Jennifer Field: [00:00:50] We'll be taking a month off so we can recharge. Do more research. If you have any ideas listeners for the next season, please send it to us through DM or through the website, but we will have a bonus episode for you while we're gone. Ok, now let's meet our guest. One of the most talented rappers of all time Ras Kass in the House

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:10] Ras Kass is considered critic's darling, a hip hop purist archetype and a rapper's worst nightmare. His nom de plume is literally your favorite rapper's favorite rapper. He's a lyricist, published author, executive producer, SAG actor, ghostwriter, voiceover actor, music consultant, public speaker and urban philosopher. He recently received a B-plus GPA in the recently viral hip hop report card.

Jennifer Field: [00:01:37] B+? 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:37] B+? What the fuck is that?

Jennifer Field: [00:01:40] What the fuck?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:01:40] Kool Mo Dee be trippin'

[00:01:43] From old school legend Kool Mo Dee. Thank you. He worked with these greats Dr. Dre to DJ Premier, the RZA to Kanye West from Apollo Brown, The Alchemist to multi Grammy Award winning funk producer Jack Splash and collaborative elite rappers such as Kendrick Lamar, Nipsey Hussle, Jay-Z, 2Chanes, The Loxs, Ice-T too Short, Talib Kweli,And to many more others to name. Welcome.

Ras Kass: [00:02:04] Thanks for having me.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:02:05] Thanks for being here. It's a really it's an honor to meet you. And you know, I grew up in Brooklyn, so. 

Ras Kass: [00:02:10] No doubt salute Brooklyn. Stand up.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:02:12] Yeah. Like when we heard you, you know you were the one from out here. For sure. For sure. But you already know that?

Ras Kass: [00:02:17] But I get a lot of love back east, especially Brooklyn, a second home.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:02:21] Tell us, how did you get into hip hop? 

Ras Kass: [00:02:22] Late bloomer. It was ambient noise for me. I got four sisters, so my socialization was being around the fellas outside. So the older guys, the older boys, so they were playing it. So it was always around. I think I fell in love with it sometime around hearing. I can remember, fuck the police resonating with me. Nwa on multiple levels. I know why now subconsciously, why it resonated with me and KRS-one to just period edutainment. You know, all those records. Then I went backwards and just started really listening because you hear things all the time, but you don't. A lot of people don't listen. So I started listening to hip hop from that point.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:02:59] Right. And it's crazy. I think your style is such a perfect mix because I was just pulled you up on Spotify. Just to get back into the vibe of things. And yeah, I was like, Yo went when a West Coast artist is like super lyrical, it hits different, you know what I mean, that's why Kendrick, it's like because the hardness is still there,

Ras Kass: [00:03:18] Right

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:19] And the bars.

Ras Kass: [00:03:20] Yeah

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:20] it's like a deadly combination. It hits way different than anything else.

Ras Kass: [00:03:24] Thank you, man. Yeah. But you know, like the prototype of that evolution, which was, you know, hood kid, but purist as far as the production and interpretation of hip hop,

Jennifer Field: [00:03:35] What Do you got going now or is there something that we can look forward to?

Ras Kass: [00:03:40] Yeah, quite a few things. Mainly my main concern right now. Our biggest focus is rest in peace prodigy from Mobb Deep can never be replaced. That was a friend. You know, P was a friend of mine. What we're doing is a project to someone's finished. We call it gutter g-u-t-t-e-r. So it's me. Havoc. So we're retaining that sound. We'll never be able to make more Mobb Deep records, but there's no really platform for Havocs production on that street shit, that grimy shit. And so to make sure it didn't get too much comparisons to Mobb Deep, we wanted to focus on hood shit. We got RJ pain out of Philly. Who's up and coming Eminem. Everybody's been talking highly about him. So RJ pain myself and Havoc are gutter, so that project's almost finished, you know, great. You know, shouts out to everybody. That's been a part of it. Sway from Swayze Universe, MLP, Method Man, Jadakiss, Beanie Siegel Freeway, whatever. So just all, all the people that's coming together to make this a special project. We're finishing up now.

Jennifer Field: [00:04:38] That sounds great.

Ras Kass: [00:04:39] Yes, it's gonna be dope?

Jennifer Field: [00:04:40] Any beats from Alchemist on this one?

Ras Kass: [00:04:43] No, this is all havoc because it's about because we want the sound of mobb Deep like we will never get that again. You know, you never get that. But at least the soundtrack of what a mobb deep album would sound like would be Havoc's production all the way through. So now the strictly Havoc on the beat.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:58] That's dope. And. Are there any like leftover prodigy bars?

Ras Kass: [00:05:01] You know, when people pass away. Unfortunately, estates get involved and all that gets complicated actually years ago. You know, we're out in the streets, you're getting the beefs and whatever. So this time I thought, you know, possibly I might die on this one, you know, whatever. And I remember just threatening my mother. I was like, Don't put me on no songs with no mother fuckers. I don't like right now. Not because that shit happens, man, you know? Yeah, of course. You're my mama. Don't know who I don't fuck you. It's like, you know, Jesus. And then, you know, everybody loves you when you're dead. So posthumously, you know, Pac ends up on songs with people he didn't fuck with. And same thing with Nipsey Hussle. Like your baby mama or your mom does not know your street life and who you don't fuck with. And a lot of times they're just listening to people who are exploiting opportunity because you're dead. You can't say no. So I kind of my little sister. She has a list of people who I don't fuck with, like, don't you ever put on a fucking song with this fucking weirdo, bro? Yeah, fuck That.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:02] I don't want to. I mean, kind of a spoiler alert, but if you watch a ghost to power second power, he gets arrested little Tariq and then, like his father who's dead now, gives him his father's lawyer, gives him a letter and he opens up the letter. And all it says is, I knew you would end up here little nigga, you know? So just sort of like thinking of what's going to happen when you pass away, right? And I'm a comedian, I never even thought about that. But I think like if I die, people are going to start like taking my my jokes and try to do compilations that I wouldn't have been cool with. And all of that

Ras Kass: [00:06:32] I have a plan. So also my little sister, she's just mine. She's brilliant, speaks fluent Japanese, you know, just just that's my little. I call it the Obama bitch. So, you know, she's the one, you know, just super smart Berkeley law graduate. But anyway, so the whole point for her is I told her, I'm going to record my death album. Yeah. And then three years after I come out,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:06:56] Oh, that's cool.

Ras Kass: [00:06:57] After I die, then I'm going to release it. So then they'll say everything that I really felt, Oh yeah, you should keep it to fuck you. Fuck this. I never liked you. Your pussy was wack. I hate you. Not cool with this, right? And then the hook will be like, So what? I'm dead, nigger. I don't Care. Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:19] And have you recorded any of that?

Ras Kass: [00:07:21] I've been writing it. Yeah, that's that's. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:07:23] That's hilarious.

Ras Kass: [00:07:24] And there's songs that I feel like already fit it. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:27] Right right. 

Ras Kass: [00:07:27] Moving into it. But there's some I have to really write out like fuck you specifically to certain people.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:07:32] That's hilarious.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:32] That is brilliant. And, you know, it's crazy. You talked about, Like,

Ras Kass: [00:07:35] I'm gonna call it, Death Mask, I just came up with it. Thank you.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:38] One foot in the street, one foot in the business and just hearing you talk. It just sounds like you have so much on your plate. And so how much are you currently still in the streets and how much work is this? Because it seems like you do like my thing from being a comic, I'll say is that I didn't realize I always thought, Oh, I don't have a day job. Then I start doing it and I realize this way harder than a day job. You know what I mean?

Ras Kass: [00:07:59] This is being in a submarine. You're constantly doing the crafts that we picked or, you know, 24 hour demanding,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:07] Right. 

Ras Kass: [00:08:07] You know, minute man shit. Do it, be good at it when the time called, you know me as far as streets, I'm not. I'm not in the streets, you know, I don't gang bang, you know, whatever. So I mean, I'm born and raised in LA. It's like any dude that is any kind of an athletic curious boy. You run around with your friends, your friends ranging from you do stupid shit with your friends, whatever that entails, with whatever group of friends you're with at that particular time. But me, what I call the streets now is his life surviving. You know, we got bills to pay shit to do. Sometimes you've got to take a risk and do some shit that may not be as legal. You do what you can to survive. I mean, that's the fucking world we live in and the reality and we picked a business that again is peaks and valleys. So not everybody gets to be Prince or Beyonce or fucking win at 17000 Oscars, you know, actually alluded to that in the rhyme. And I was just saying, you know, like I was talking about. We have a song in the gutter project and the song is called Stop Playing. And basically, it's about the industry like,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:09:09] Right

Ras Kass: [00:09:09] Stop playing music industry. Don't like hip hop, playing whatever. But I say something about alluding to, like all these artists, they coon out, they prostitute themselves in their integrity and their art form for the success. Then they go to these awards shows where the people that own these companies. Same thing with the movies. And then they overlook people of color and everybody cries like Grammys so White Oscars so white nigga. Your boss is white and they never gave a fuck about you anyway and get over it right, of course. So stop playing that game, right? So that's the street for me is like surviving the corporation that doesn't have my best interests at heart anyway and doesn't have the best. Not even that it's personal. It's just they don't care about the art form. They're just here to exploit it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:09:51] Yeah, yeah, exactly right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:52] So I know one of the things I respected out of you when I was growing up because I grew up out here in Los Angeles, was that That you fuck with all the different groups of people like from different coasts? You were like messing with the West Coast, East Coast. You know, I was caught up in that whole crap. You know, I was like, Oh, like I only like West Coast. Exactly. It was like I was in middle school, you know, like, so fuck Brooklyn. No. But but, you know,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:21] Don't say that they got Brooklyn motherfuckers on the Moon, bro.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:24] I love Brooklyn

Ras Kass: [00:10:25] They're everywhere.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:26] I have a friend who's I have a friend who's from Brooklyn, so I'm good. No, no, I'm kidding. But but one of the things that I remember, you know, as a kid, can you tell me a little bit about the whole controversy with Pac and all that stuff?

Ras Kass: [00:10:37] I mean, I was younger, so that's not my generation. So, you know, I call it 13th grade. So some people, it's clicky, like high school, like the music industry acting. I'm sure it's those same things. There's your A-list, super popular and rap like literally your jocks. There's your you know what I'm saying? There's a fucking we have the gangster guys dealing with the trap, guys. We're the we're the pimp guys. We're the Crip guys. We're the blood guys. We're the really fucking elite black guys. We're the pseudo intellectuals. So it's all these little groups of people. And in my grade Pac and then were before me, so Pac and pun and and all those people, I'm in the same class. Technically, it would be me and kind of sort of the Loxs, but not really even common and twister like me. And maybe, maybe Outkast would kind of be in our grade.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:28] You mean from a time line or from... 

Ras Kass: [00:11:30] Time it comes out. Yeah, because I'm coming out, I'm buzzing from ninety two on. Then I go to jail on kind of shit happens, you know, whatever. So you don't really. We never really counted on it, at least with people I talk to until like, you got your deal and your record dropped. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:44] Right. 

Ras Kass: [00:11:44] Or you're single dropped. So my timeline is closer to its in there with kweli and pharaoh monarch. We're all in the same class,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:51] Right. 

Ras Kass: [00:11:51] You know, Pac and them were and then you talked about, you know, Pac was somebody that was selling multi-platinum had movies, fucking Madonna. He's just a different. So I'm kind of on the outside looking in. I was I was acquainted with him and his family is my clique, too. So digital underground, shock g and all of them. They're the first people to embrace me outside of L.A.. Tupac's whole family, the person I was in a group with Sophia was Tupac's roommate, and then he ran with thug life, which was my friends. They were older than me. But on Crenshaw, the rolling 60 so rated R and all of em was my friends just on some running the streets, being a bad kid. So we all knew each other, but I would just every time I saw them, super nice to me. He's super nice to me. He did't like exhibit because that was a misunderstanding, so I had to fix that situation. Oh, Machiavelli, they got some for that nigger that made paparazzi. You know what I'm saying? Bomb First first song on the album they ad exhibit. So I had heard the record before it came out and they all come up to me. We all had a show. And then, like bad news Ras, you know what I'm saying? And I'm like, Fuck, I know already. But I hadn't heard the whole album. I thought he was going to get me too. So I thought Tupac was going to dis me because I'm on the song with...

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:01] Chino XL'

Ras Kass: [00:13:01] Chino XL, I'm literally on the song where he says the thing.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:04] Yeah.

Ras Kass: [00:13:05] So I'm like, I'm fucked both ways. This exhibit shit I didn't put myself, and then I'm on the song with chino says the shit, and he's already fuck Chino XL, fuck. I'm like, God, I'm just waiting for him to say, like, and you too Ras Kass. Fuck. So he never dissed me, you know, super just shows he, you know, he knew I was part of the family, and I definitely I love Chino to life, but I definitely at the time didn't know him well enough, and I was kind of like, wasn't OK with the line, he said.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:33] Did you know about that line before?

Ras Kass: [00:13:35] Of course we were in the studio together,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:36] OK

Ras Kass: [00:13:36] There wasn't one digital back then.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:38] Oh, that's right. Yeah

Ras Kass: [00:13:39] Yeah. And I did that as a favor to Rick Rubin. And I didn't know Chino. I knew Rick Rubin. And he would personally come pick me up and, you know, play me demos. He wanted to sign me, and once I picked a different label, he asked me to do the song with Chino. I knew of Chino. I knew his talent, but I didn't know him and we were in the studio and he did the line. I was like, bro that's too far, man, and I almost left out. And then, because I didn't do that, I'm glad we did it. I'm glad the record came out. I just expected that Tupac was going to send 100 people to kill me, but not, you know, the answer your question. The whole east west thing. First of all, I think it's manufactured.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:14] Yeah.

Ras Kass: [00:14:14] It was highly manufactured East Coast. We're the two biggest kids on the Block L.A., New York. So we always will be in competition, period. The ironic part is, while we were busy competing, the South took over and now nobody can eat. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:27] Right.

Ras Kass: [00:14:28] They don't even know it. They only use words half the time in their raps. They mumble their way through like literally, the east and west were like competing and talking shit about each other and the south and the Canadians took over like Drake to Bieber weekend. So we're the fucking idiots was sitting there crying about East West.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:48] You know what's crazy about that? I mean, I love a lot of southern music, really. It bumps it bangs and all that it slaps as the kids get slapped. But but yeah, like my ear was tuned for New York rap,

Ras Kass: [00:15:00] Right. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:00] Then a few West Coast rappers Cube, you know, even back, I King t, you know, a few for a few West Coast rappers, I was really messed with. And then the south came up and I still like the south. But then, like, I was like, it made me realize how much I liked West Coast rap. I think because like, like if they play like three or four southern songs in a row, they they usually catchy more,

Ras Kass: [00:15:21] Right Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:22] Than the West Coast. And I'd be like, Oh God, thank you. You know what I mean,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:27] Like, make me say, Uh, that was. That was the end of it right there.

Ras Kass: [00:15:33] That was about label mate, man. I was signed to Priority the round building priority capital.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:37] So it's like when Ghost said, he said. Laffey Taffy.

Ras Kass: [00:15:41] Oh yeah

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:41] How you niggas get past me? And I thought there was never any kind of get back as far as I know. But that was like he went at the Laffey Taffy dude.

Ras Kass: [00:15:49] But the Wu Wu was like the Wu was going that biggie wu went at Jay-Z. I was there one time, literally, when Ghost and Cappadonna, like we are in a club together. I went with J. I was staying. But before my second album came out, I lived with Jay-Z.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:04] Oh, wow.

Ras Kass: [00:16:05] Yeah, because he was Priority reasonable doubt was Priority records. So I was going to kind of slide in and be Rockefeller West with Jay. At the time, that was the idea, but I remember they were not too happy with Jay and all of them look like NBA. They should be a basketball team The Wu. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:18] They're tall dudes 

Ras Kass: [00:16:20] Very tall, dude. I remember Ghost like, you with them son son, Ras you with him. I was like. Yeah, man. And I'm like, I'm like, this big. And yeah, sometimes you can get beat up by Wu-Tang that time.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:32] Yeah, but you've done a mad songs with them.

Ras Kass: [00:16:35] Oh yeah, I mean, RZA, the RZA I feel like I'm the spoiled kid that gets away with, you know, like, not Wu-Tang gets more things from RZA than anybody. I'm super blessed, like. I'm grateful that they all show me a lot of love, but I'm pretty sure it was irritating. Like this fucking Ras Kass kid, why son be getting I could get rid of it, didn't it didn't rap on any beats but his own back then. And RZA I got rid to rhyme on shit that he didn't produce. He was. He took a liking to me, thank god, because it changed my life.

Jennifer Field: [00:17:08] All right, so what do you guys think? Should we get into this?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:17:11] Absolutely.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:17:11] All right, so here are the facts.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:17:13] Most conspiracies are formed over time and at various different forums, pages, et cetera. What makes this conspiracy fun is that we have the original anonymous post when hip hop is read dot com. Back in 2012, instead of trying to interpret it for you, let's just read you the whole thing.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:17:29] But it's really, really, really long. So I don't Want. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:17:31] Not The whole thing. The part that you need to hear.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:17:34] So in the beginning of the letter, which will have on our website and on the show, notes this executive talks about being called to this meeting. I think it's somewhere in Malibu or something like that. And he goes there, he doesn't know what it's for. He's forced to sign some nondisclosure agreement. And this is the most important part of the letter. So why don't we go ahead and start to look at that. 

Jennifer Field: [00:17:53] Quickly After the meeting began, one of my industry colleagues who shall remain nameless like everybody else, thanked us for attending. He then gave the floor to a man who only introduced himself by first name and gave no further details about his personal background. I think he was the owner of the residence, but it was never confirmed. He briefly praised all of us for the success we had achieved in our industry and congratulated us for being selected as part of this small group of decision makers.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:18:16] At this point, I began to feel slightly uncomfortable at the strangeness of this gathering. The subject quickly changed as the speaker went on to tell us that the respective companies we represented had invested in a very profitable industry, which could become even more rewarding with our active involvement. He explained that the companies we work for had invested millions into the building of privately owned prisons and that our positions of influence in the music industry would actually impact the profitability of these investments.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:18:43] I remember many of us in the group immediately looking each other in confusion. At the time, I didn't know what a private prison was, but I was. I wasn't the only one. Sure enough, someone asked what these prisons were and what any of this had to do with us. We were told that these prisons were built by privately owned companies, received funding from the government based on the number of inmates.

Jennifer Field: [00:19:01] The more inmates, the more money the government would pay these prisons. It was also made clear to us that since these prisons are privately owned, as they become publicly traded, we'd be able to buy shares. Most of us were taken aback by this again. A couple of people asked what this had to do with us. And at this point, my industry colleague, who had first opened the meeting, took the floor again and answered our questions. He told us that since our employers had become silent investors in this prison business, it was now in their interest to make sure that these prisons remained filled. Our job being the music of choice, he assured us that this would be a great situation for us because rap music was becoming an increasingly profitable market for our companies and as employees, we'd also be able to buy personal stocks in these prisons.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:19:44] Immediately, silence came over the room. You could hear a pin drop. I remember looking around to make sure I wasn't dreaming, and so half of the people with drop jaws, my daze was interrupted when someone shouted, Is this a f-- in asterisk asterisk? Is this a fucking joke? At this point, things became chaotic. Two of the men who were part of the unfamiliar group grabbed the man who shouted and attempted to remove him from the house. A few of us, myself included, tried to intervene. One of them pulled out a gun and we all backed off. They separated us from the crowd, and all four of us were escorted outside.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:20:15] My industry colleague, who had opened the meeting earlier hurried out to meet us and reminded us that we had signed agreement and would suffer the consequences of speaking about this publicly or even with those who attended the meeting. I asked him why he was involved with something that this corrupt, and he replied that it was bigger than the music business and nothing we want to challenge without risking consequences. We all protested, and as he walked back into the house, I remember word for word. The last thing he said, it's out of my hand now. Remember you signed the agreement. He then closed the door behind him. The men rushed out to our cars and actually watched us until we drove off. So the letter goes on right. The letter goes on a little bit, and eventually he quits the music business because he gets all bitter.

Jennifer Field: [00:20:51] When we come back, we're going to put our minds together and figure out what really maybe happened.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:20:57] If you have an idea about what really happened or want us to discuss the topic for season two, please visit us at unofficial official story dot com and let us know who knows if we like it. We might just ask you to come on the show with us

Jennifer Field: [00:21:10] Now that we've discussed the facts. Let's workshop our ideas.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:21:13] All right, so I'll go first. I don't buy any of this, but I do buy there was a Conspiracy. This is a Conspiracy. All right. So I was a kid around this time. You know, I was very I was very influenced by gangster rap. I mean, this is why to this day, even my suits, I sag my pants, even though I'm like 40 and my wife hates it. But but that's how gangster I am, so. So the whole point of this meeting was not actually for the prison system, but it was to teach Asians like myself to be hard So that we would listen to this Music. The Asian guys, because what's our stereotype that we're weak, that were small? We have a small penis. All that shit?

Jennifer Field: [00:21:52] Nerdy

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:21:52] Nerdy. Right?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:21:53] But then you also got the I mean, we're in the jujitsu studio right now,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:21:56] So we have martial arts. But people, people always conveniently ignore that part of it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:21:59] Right, right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:22:00] So the whole gangsta rap business was just about how to be tough now, how to be gangster. You know, like once I listen to Pac and Snoop and Dogg Pound Gangsters and Dre and all those guys, I knew how to act from that point on. And I was never I was never going to be punked Again,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:16] Like it. But then, like, too many Asian guys got too hard. So then they came out with K-pop. Bring it back a little bit,

Ras Kass: [00:22:26] I Got K-pop tatted on my chest. On their stomachs.

Jennifer Field: [00:22:29] Next Conspiracy

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:22:30] Yeah. Dwayne, do you want to go?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:32] Well, the thing is, I think it's one of those things where it almost doesn't matter if it happened or not, in a sense, because if it didn't happen, then it's like a parable, right? And so someone saying it happened in a sense that the music did change. So was there a meeting? Who knows. But the music did did change, right? And I know that like when I pitch things, I remember pitching some, some some sketch ideas for just show and I won't say the show or anything like that. Like, I would pitch something. They will go, OK, I put something else. I'm like, OK, then I would pitch something that was related to being black and they would light up. Oh, yeah, yeah, right. And so then I got a sense, Oh, this is what they want. They never had to say what they want. They didn't have to say it. They just responded to the ideas that they wanted. It's just like when you go to the airport, they say it's random, but you can't randomly search everybody who has a turban, you know,

Ras Kass: [00:23:18] Right. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:23:19] It's not random, but they never say what it is. So I'm sure when their training. 

Ras Kass: [00:23:23] Its implicit,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:23:24] It's implicit, right? So when you when they're training you, they're like, you got to randomly search that guy, you got a random, you know, so they're telling you. So I don't know. I think just for the record, I think this did happen only because when you read the letter, he sounds like he is from Europe. He says certain things wrong. Like it sounds like English as a second language, even though he's super fluent.

Jennifer Field: [00:23:41] Mm hmm.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:23:42] But I would say that not only did this meeting happen, but my whole theory is that the whole genre of rap was created by the powers that be. And I think we've talked about this before, like they sat down in the probably 50s. There's a recording in the 50s. There's a group called, you know, the group called Avalanche or the Avalanches. They're from Australia. They're like a DJ group. They produce beats and everything, and they have a song with the dude from Camp Lo and Sonny Chiba.

Ras Kass: [00:24:09] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:24:09] And it's a sample on this song, right? It's like you. It's a little boy singing. It's a sample thing. And that sample is from this like album in the 50s. And it's just this weird album, these little kids singing. It's like, it's almost like what you would do at home if you just hit record and was messing around. And I think those that was like the beginning of like early rap quote unquote, just encouraging young black men to mess around to, you know, explore sounds. And I think they created rap music not only to, like, control us, but to take their catalogs and make more money off their own catalogs. Since rap is a sampling medium, so it was like. 

Jennifer Field: [00:24:47] We talked about this in the about this in the Robert Johnson episode.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:24:49] Yeah, so yeah, this meeting did happen, but I think so. My theory is not about this meeting, but about the fact that rap the whole genre was created. I don't know if Kool Herc was in on it or but, but the whole genre was created. They were like instead of these kids learning instruments and all of that, they'll just use our songs. We'll get paid twice and then we can control them to these the same guys who were at this meeting. Their fathers were in there. They either young versions of themselves or their fathers was at another meeting in the late 50s where they laid down this whole thing to switch us over from, like jazz and bebop to this new thing called hip hop.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:25:23] Wow

Jennifer Field: [00:25:23] that's so good.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:25:25] Jennifer, what's your theory?

Jennifer Field: [00:25:26] You guys have really good theories. Is so good. Mine is. I just was thinking I took the other route. I don't want to believe that gangsta rap was created for money or like manufactured or anything or some conspiracy. And I think it's mainly because I hadn't heard of this theory before we all got together for this and did our research. And also, why isn't there more press about it? So that's why I kind of thought it was just a random author novelist. I was going to say Stephen King, but I don't know

Ras Kass: [00:25:59] That's awesome.

Jennifer Field: [00:26:00] Somebody wrote this blog post. I don't read enough fiction novels. I'm just reading scripts and self-help books all the frickin time. So that's my what I digest. So I don't read enough novels, although I wish I could, so I could figure out whose writer's voice this is. I want to know. I think this is some writer that wrote this post that's just being creative. So therefore there was no meeting in gangsta. Rap was not created to fund people's pockets that were investing in private prisons. So that's my theory is that there's some writer out there

Dwayne Perkins: [00:26:30] And you're going to go with Stephen King. I like that, or Robert Patterson

Jennifer Field: [00:26:32] To throw Stephen King out like that.

Ras Kass: [00:26:34] Robert Pattinson, there you go. James Patterson, not Robert Robert. Robert Pattinson is Batman.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:26:44] That's right. That's right. Yeah, yeah. James Patterson.

Ras Kass: [00:26:46] Yeah,

Jennifer Field: [00:26:46] OK. Yeah, I just yeah. 

Ras Kass: [00:26:47] Along came a spider. Yeah, that guy.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:26:51] What about you?

Ras Kass: [00:26:52] I was at the meeting, so I started that meeting. No, to be perfectly honest with you, I know a couple of years ago Krazy Bone was talking about this, and I want to say from my own experience, I feel like I was told about this in real time around then.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:15] Oh, wow, that's crazy.

Jennifer Field: [00:27:17] No way

[00:27:17] Still a major label artist and I do remember being it alluded to by A&R and execs and people I knew, so I tend to lean towards that, it happened and then I did watch, you know, as an artist, you know, again the round building, I watched the change. I watched it inside the machine and we knew that there was an incentive for private prisons. It's just a lady that's about to retire. She's in like Virginia. She was just like locking up kids because she had to deal with. She's not even going go to jail.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:51] Yeah. It happened in Pennsylvania too.

Ras Kass: [00:27:54] Yeah. Yeah, it is Pennsylvania.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:56] Yeah. And yeah, a judge was giving harsher sentences because they had a side deal with the prisons.

Jennifer Field: [00:28:01] What?

Ras Kass: [00:28:02] Yeah. And then you got to understand. 

Jennifer Field: [00:28:03] That makes me sick. 

Ras Kass: [00:28:05] And they were doing to children, period. This judge? Yeah, man. With that being said, I feel as if, look, a car company knows what kind of car it's going to make for the next five years. Why wouldn't any other company. 

Jennifer Field: [00:28:19] OK?

Ras Kass: [00:28:19] They have a plan, a pattern of practice. The only reason why I disagree with with your concept is they already own jazz. We created rock and roll black people, created rock and roll and created jazz. And they were constantly disenfranchised,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:33] Right. 

Ras Kass: [00:28:34] Black people couldn't even make the music, and then they would buy it from you for pennies and say it wasn't worth anything. I don't know if you saw what's the brother that just passed away Black Panther the last movie. The last thing he did.

Jennifer Field: [00:28:46] Oh,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:47] The movie about. 

Ras Kass: [00:28:47] Chadwick Boseman? 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:48] Oh yeah,

Ras Kass: [00:28:49] He did. He did. The thing that was like that it was something directed by

Jennifer Field: [00:28:53] And he did that movie. That last movie.

Ras Kass: [00:28:55] Yeah, it's the last movie about the Blues state yet. And that's the whole thing. He's coming up with these different patterns, and it's kind of loosely based on a true situation, but they were disenfranchised. The point being is, is that you couldn't even have your face on albums up until like the late 50s or early 60s as black people. And then they would take your records. All the Elvis records were stolen, bought or stolen. We were disenfranchised and we always rap is only the invention of having nothing to play with no instruments, but we had instruments and then they would just steal that too. They would steal the records and steal the songs we make them. The The Beach Boys biggest record is a remake, a stolen riff like they've stolen our music from the beginning and then take our faces off of it. So it's called urban or quote-unquote just like we could be real here. It's called nigger music. Rock and roll is called nigger music. Blues was called Nigger Music. Rap is called Nigger Music. Everything's nigger music until white people do it right and it's called pop and they still call you nigger music because they call it urban. That's why urban people do your urban award shows and they're popular things. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:58] Right? Right, right?

Ras Kass: [00:29:59] They're just changing words. You're the nigger. Anything you do is not cool until they put their face on it. And so with those with those factors being, you know, the fact that I do kind of remember industry people talking about this, I think it did exist and I think they did implement it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:30:14] That's crazy.

Ras Kass: [00:30:14] Unfortunately. Yeah. Thinking about BET after Bob Johnson. So BET was based in D.C. and you know, whether it's Japanese television, whether it's Chinese television, whether it's I forgot what the Jewish channel is, JD, TV or whatever. If the Nazis on Jewish TV, what kind of programs do you get?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:30:33] Right.

Ras Kass: [00:30:33] So so what I'm saying is BET was sold to Viacom. I caught it, then became, I call it Viacom coon. They took all the Caribbean vibes. They took all the culture out of BET. They took all the rap. That's when. And that was the advent also of. No variety.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:30:50] And BETUncut, which was like soft porn at night,

Ras Kass: [00:30:52] Well, They took Tavis Smiley off, which was a teen summit thing with young people. They brought smart people in to talk to young teenagers about the things you're going to go through. So, you know, 17 or whatever 16 to 19 year olds talk like it was something for the culture, not just for exploitation.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:12] Right.

Ras Kass: [00:31:12] And they and they did siphon off and they pushed party rap, gangsta rap. And then it was no balance. There was no variety. There was no tribe called Quest. There was no Rahkim. There was Krs-One, one, there was no Ras Kass it was strictly party or kill,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:26] Right

Ras Kass: [00:31:26] And then even I would just say that it's got to be more extreme where it's escapism. So I mean it used to be about drug dealing now, it's about drug popping. So now it's addict music,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:36] Right That's exactly right. Rappers in the 90s, it was like, we sell drugs. 

Ras Kass: [00:31:40] Right. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:40] Now, rappers like we use drugs. It was like none of the 90s rappers,

Ras Kass: [00:31:44] Right. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:45] They never said they used drugs, maybe smoked weed, but they were right.

Ras Kass: [00:31:48] You cannot admit about you did cocaine in 2001, like you partied if you party and you kept that to yourself. But you can't get on the record like I did eight lines of cocaine. Now, you know, I've kind of watched it regress. Where that's the popular thing to do is like how many pills and. And I'm depressed and suicide is like. And unfortunately, and it's actually gotten so big where it's outside of the urban. A lot of these things backfire. It was intentional to promote strictly violent Music, I think they did. Telling you, I've had I used to have to have conversations with executives at owned company that owned the Beatles catalog and they own Kylie Minogue and, you know, on my label mates and I write this intelligent thing and then you go promote the guy that Crip walks and drinks for 40 ounces and shoots 17 niggas in his rap. Why? Why is that? Same thing you said. Like when like you're pitching one thing and like, Well, what a black guy. But the other afro, they're like, That's funny. You know the stereotype shit. So, yeah, yeah, I don't know. I tend to lean towards I believe it happened or some degree of it. The end result ended up the same.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:32:59] All right. Well, we're at that point where we have to choose The official unofficial story. I feel strongly that I like our guest's theory, not a theory. It's like he's saying it happened. He was there.

Ras Kass: [00:33:09] I personally, I like yours better.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:12] Yeah, yours is like I wish it was.

Ras Kass: [00:33:15] That's the way I wish. I wish it was.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:17] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:18] But yeah, I think it's crazy because this guy didn't name names, you know, like Kurrupt did, right? But. 

Ras Kass: [00:33:24] Nice.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:25] But yeah, there's something about it. Like, it doesn't matter if it didn't happen, it happened. Even if this meeting didn't happen.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:31] Yeah,

Ras Kass: [00:33:31] Right

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:32] Yeah. Some version of this, I mean, because I mean, I don't wanna get too far into it, but obviously it plays on stereotypes of African-American males, right? That your violin and blah blah blah. And people buy that. They couldn't buy that. You're smart, articulate,

Ras Kass: [00:33:44] Right. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:45] That you have something to say.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:46] Right. But then was there another meeting that said, OK, it's gangbusters. The prison thing, the gangster stuff. But now we just need them to also wear dresses. So I don't know if.

Ras Kass: [00:33:57] Well, that was in the acting side of it. That was all you know.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:34:01] Well, but Pac talks about what what does he say like blues was about, you know, you're singing for the for the group and then he's like, jazz was, you're knocking on the door and no one's listening. And then rock was like, You're like hitting the door. And he's like, and then hip hop was, I'm blowing the door down. I'm going to shoot everybody in this room, right? So on that level, that's what he that's what he talked about. And I don't know if I don't know.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:21] And even like the little thing, like, it's OK, it's cool, right? Some people, if you if you're named after your father, they call you little whatever, right? If you're a short person, they call you little. But every rapper now wants to be little, and every other rapper was big in the 90s, you know?

Ras Kass: [00:34:36] I said that I recently. Yeah, everybody was big. There was, you know, big L. Big Pun. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:42] Right, right.

Ras Kass: [00:34:43] Biggie. Yeah, yeah. Now everybody's little. But now that even younger than that, right? Because I the babies and the babies. So now next thing is going to be like sperm. You're getting younger and younger to be younger. They went from big to little. to baby,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:35:00] To sperm. 

Ras Kass: [00:35:01] Spermy

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:35:01] It's going to be spermy, the rapper.

Jennifer Field: [00:35:04] Spermy the rapper.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:35:06] Jennifer, which theory did you like best?

Jennifer Field: [00:35:07] We haven't really ever picked the theory. That's actual theory.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:35:11] Yeah, we've never picked it no.

Jennifer Field: [00:35:12] So this is the first time because we have almost like a witness that was like they're in the mix and had heard about it in the nineties. I think we should go with that, too. And like Dwayne said, whether the meeting happened or not, this has happened.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:35:24] And also like what made I think Jay-Z Pop and your stuff is, even if you do have the gangsta themes, you have the consequence in that to what happens. And then they took that out,

Ras Kass: [00:35:36] Right They did.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:35:37] Yeah, yeah.

Ras Kass: [00:35:38] Because even with Scarface and you know, I've never seen a man cry till I seen a man died. There were consequences in it. It wasn't just I kill everybody, and I know Pablo Escobar and I have all the cocaine, and it's like, if you did, you wouldn't be rapping.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:35:52] Exactly.

Ras Kass: [00:35:53] It's just ridiculous. I mean, you know, and for real, just looking at I remember just maybe nine years ago just looking at the pressure on a teenager, like, you got to have that many chains. I can't afford all those chains. Like to be cool at 20 right now these motherfuckers are talking about Bentleys and. 

Jennifer Field: [00:36:11] Yeah

Ras Kass: [00:36:12] Thse kind of guns and like what you're going to have to, you have to be good with the credit card game, the credit card scam game better be up or you got to kill everybody. Because you can't afford the shit that they're talking about a thousand dollar Kanye fucking ugly moon boot and hint hint my brother's wearing.

Jennifer Field: [00:36:31] That is the official story. We're going to take another break, and when we return, we'll take a look at some other hip-hop conspiracy theories that are out there. People always ask us how they can start a podcast, and one of the first things we tell people is that they should host their show on Buzzsprout like we do.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:36:50] Whether you're looking for a new marketing channel, have a message you want to share with the world, or just think it would be fun to have your own talk show. Podcasting is an easy, inexpensive and fun way to expand your reach online.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:02] Buzzsprout is hands down the easiest and best way to launch, promote and track your podcast. Your show can be online And listed in all the major podcasts Directories within minutes of finishing your recording.

Jennifer Field: [00:37:12] Following the link in the show notes, Let's buzzsprout know that we sent you. You'll get a $20 Amazon gift card if you sign up for a paid plan, and most importantly, you'll be helping support our show. Ok. This month, we're going to be taking a lightning round on a few other hip hop conspiracies, so let's see what everyone thinks of these. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:32] First and Most important one is did Suge Knight kill Tupac and Biggie.

Ras Kass: [00:37:36] No

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:36] no.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:38] Maybe one of them. Not both.

Ras Kass: [00:37:39] Right? See, there's a caveat in there,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:46] Jennifer. What do you think?

Ras Kass: [00:37:47] Sorry, Suge.

Jennifer Field: [00:37:48] Yeah, I'm scared. So I'll say no.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:54] Yeah, I'm going to say no on that one as well. All right. So the next one is the Jay-Z. Is he part of the Illuminati?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:00] Well, here's the thing he doesn't need to be because he's so talented. I think he thinks he is. But but like, there's like this another level because they like guys like him. He's not really in it. And I've seen him do some hand signals and like, what was that? But I think he thinks he is. Yeah.

Ras Kass: [00:38:19] That's really funny.

Jennifer Field: [00:38:20] That's pretty funny.Yes, my answer is yes.

Ras Kass: [00:38:24] I'm I'm rolling with Dwayne. You say he thinks he is.

Jennifer Field: [00:38:29] People don't realize this, but he's suppose to be on Pac's album Killuminati. That was him,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:33] Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:38:36] Is Tupac alive somewhere?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:39] No. Just just in our hearts and minds,

Ras Kass: [00:38:41] Right. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:42] Yes. Yeah. Unfortunately 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:38:43] Did I tell you so I wanted to name my kid, Tupac.

Ras Kass: [00:38:46] That would have been awesome.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:38:47] That would have been dope. My wife was totally against it. I was even I even talked to the doctor about, like, can we put her down so that I can do this? And the one the best story was we Were on a merry go round. He was like three.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:58] Mm hmm.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:38:58] And then he was like, I remember he's going up and down and he's like, Daddy, you should have called me Tupac.

Ras Kass: [00:39:03] Wow.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:04] I was super excited.

Ras Kass: [00:39:05] I get around.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:06] And then I went home and I told my wife, and then I was like, Tell her, tell her, he said. I never said That.

Jennifer Field: [00:39:11] Ah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:12] Whoa.

Jennifer Field: [00:39:13] So were you dreaming it?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:14] No, I'm 100 percent sure it happened.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:16] Video It didn't happen.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:18] That's what I mean. So anyway, sorry. Biggest mistake in my life, anyway. All right. I hadn't heard this till I started looking into it. But did Suge Knight inject eazy E with AIDS?

Jennifer Field: [00:39:27] Yes.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:28] Yes.

Jennifer Field: [00:39:29] I firmly. What do you think? I No? 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:32] That's the most gangster thing. I mean, it's not just shooting him, it's like, I'm going to fucking put aids in you.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:36] I say I say yes. Only because he joked about it on Kimmel Suge did 

Jennifer Field: [00:39:41] I saw that video.

Ras Kass: [00:39:42] Suge did?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:43] Maybe he was just playing with the theory that's out there.

Ras Kass: [00:39:46] Never heard this one

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:47] Since he said it. Yeah, you can YouTube it. 

Jennifer Field: [00:39:49] I saw that. And yeah, because he just rapidly declined so quickly.

Ras Kass: [00:39:53] Who has a blood syringe of AIDS juice? I mean, that's some shit. I guess with money buys anything I would. I'm just going to say, I hope not. That's all I know. That's... 

Jennifer Field: [00:40:04] Because there is a rumor back then, too, that there was people with AIDS filled syringes at Raves. Remember, you had a sticker that said, Welcome to the world of AIDS.

Ras Kass: [00:40:13] I heard, Yeah, I heard that. Yeah, yeah, that's scary.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:40:17] That was Suge at the raves.

Ras Kass: [00:40:19] Yeah, right, right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:40:21] It was all running up to Easy. That was the thing.

Ras Kass: [00:40:23] Practicing. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:40:25] Practicing. All right. So someone is someone is out there Writing all of Lil Wayne's raps?

Jennifer Field: [00:40:31] No,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:40:32] No. I think I think maybe he got a little help. There's been periods.

Jennifer Field: [00:40:37] Writer's block.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:40:38] Yeah. I mean, Gilead the kid always says, he wrote. He says he wrote a lot of the Carter 2. Then I think he retracted that. So I think I think Wayne got some help, but I think once the sizzurp kicked in, then he was all good. Yeah. Or whatever, he's whatever he is. It is lean,

Ras Kass: [00:40:53] Lean. It's the same thing. It's Sizzurp.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:40:56] Whoever wrote Taylor Swift. The whole controversy of Taylor Swift. Maybe that's that person also Wrote Lil Wayne.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:01] Maybe,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:41:02] Maybe

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:02] maybe who it those Norwegian guys.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:41:04] There's a whole controversy around like whether she wrote it or all her stuff, and somebody said she did it. And I don't even know. I don't listen to her shit.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:09] But Wayne's stuff is too locked in,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:41:12] No, that's I'm saying, that's how brilliant this writer is.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:14] Yeah, yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:41:14] It goes from Taylor Swift All the way, a Lil Wayne Wayne. 

Ras Kass: [00:41:18] Tev Who you say, Well, you know more about Wayne Wayne Wayne writing his rhymes. Ok, so I was going to go with my first instinct. Tev Tev got his ear to the streets. I was around during those days. You got to remember Man Gilly and all the Philly boys. They was over there in that camp. So. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:36] Is that right?

Ras Kass: [00:41:37] Yeah, I'm going to go with someone's writing them.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:40] Oh boy, he's sang the hell out of them. So let's.

Ras Kass: [00:41:43] Well, you know what? So does Dr. Dre, like great delivers great. Same way. I won't throw it out there, Kanye. You don't write the Raps, either.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:51] That's true. Yeah.

Ras Kass: [00:41:52] So let's be real with it.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:41:53] Yeah, I mean, it's OK. I mean, you could either like Taylor. I don't even care if she could sing. Well, that's fine. I mean, not everyone can sing and write the song,

Ras Kass: [00:41:59] Right

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:41:59] Like, some people can't rap and write the song. That's fine.

Jennifer Field: [00:42:02] And you've ghost written a little bit. Yeah, sure.

Ras Kass: [00:42:03] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:04] Even Eazy said Ice Cube Ice Cube writes the rhymes that I say so yeah,

Ras Kass: [00:42:08] You're right. Easy Puff Puff said it the best, though he said, Don't don't. Don't worry if I write rhymes, I write checks.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:16] That was dope.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:42:16] All right, three six mafia. They worshipped the devil.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:19] I think that they don't,

Ras Kass: [00:42:21] But they wish they did, That was your answer last time, he's like, he's not the illuminati but he thinks he is.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:33] But I think I think having a name like that, you know what I mean? Like, I've never said Candyman, however, many times just to be safe, right? So I've never said Candyman, you know, just to be safe. I won't say Candyman, whatever. I've never. 

Ras Kass: [00:42:47] You're on tbe third time. Just so you know.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:49] Yeah, I've never. No, I said things in between. I think. 

Ras Kass: [00:42:52] I don't know the rules out of the Candy Man.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:55] Yeah, I don't think they do. But I do think having that name could bring some things to you that you don't, you know, you're not expecting or, you know, you don't want.

Jennifer Field: [00:43:04] Hmm.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:04] What do you guys think?

Ras Kass: [00:43:05] I don't think they do, but I like what you said that with Jay-Z. I think they Don't.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:43:13] They think that they dealing with Lucifer. But it's like Lucifer's third in line,

Ras Kass: [00:43:17] Right

Dwayne Perkins: [00:43:18] Yeah. Yeah

Ras Kass: [00:43:18] yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:19] All right. The last one, did the government entrap T.I. on his gun charges?

Ras Kass: [00:43:24] No,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:25] No.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:43:25] So you mean like he was innocent and they set him up?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:27] Yeah, they set him up.

Jennifer Field: [00:43:29] I think, no,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:30] I'm totally.

Jennifer Field: [00:43:30] TI's got a big old, long rap sheet, right?

Ras Kass: [00:43:32] I was out there on that one too I was around. Yeah, I have a little more insight.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:39] I'm changing. I'm changing my answer now. I say yes for now. No. Ok. Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:43:43] I think no. I think no.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:44] The the thing that trips me out always is that I remember when O.J. Simpson was on trial and everyone's like, Why would the LAPD Put all this evidence down? That's bullshit. And then like, you know, like a year later, Rampart happens and you're just like, Oh yeah, I did did this like constantly to people,

Jennifer Field: [00:43:56] Oh my God. All right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:58] I was always like, Yeah, I don't believe the I mean, I don't know if O.J. did it or not. I don't care, really. But it's like, Do I believe the police set up Suspects I do all the time, right? So it's like

Dwayne Perkins: [00:44:08] I have a whole new bit I'm working on. It's not really done yet, but when I tell people to watch Dateline because so many white dudes get railroaded, and so if that's a jump off point, if you see white dudes get railroaded, just imagine what everybody Else. 

Ras Kass: [00:44:21] Shit Runs downhill.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:44:21] Thank you Ras Kass for coming on with us. We really appreciate it. Please tell us where people can follow you. All that stuff.

Ras Kass: [00:44:30] The best way to catch me is on Instagram at Ras underscore KASS. And from there I can give you my campsite. That bio, which goes there every nook and cranny of my journey.

Jennifer Field: [00:44:43] Thank you, Ras. Thank you so much. All for listening. There are a million podcasts out there. We're so honored you chosen ours to listen to and to this very special episode.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:44:52] Please check out our website. Unofficial official story dot come for our show notes or to hear our past episodes.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:44:57] Yes, this will be our last episode of the season. We ended on a major major high. We'll be taking a short break, but don't worry, we'll be putting out a bonus episode while we're going.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:45:05] That's awesome.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:45:06] Yeah, we love bonuses.

Ras Kass: [00:45:08] Thank you guys for having me. So I had a blast.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:45:10] So much. Thank you.

Jennifer Field: [00:45:11] Thank you.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:45:12] Bye, everybody.

Ras Kass: [00:45:13] Chow Bella.