S2E6 Who Killed 2Pac? with Comedian Ruben Paul

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:05] Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is Season two Episode six of the unofficial official story. I'm Dwayne, and I guess I'm the class clown, but I feel like I'm more the skeptic.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:19] You are the skeptic. And I'm Koji and I am the believer, well no I always say I'm the agnostic, so I believe. But I also don't believe because I don't think everything could possibly be true. This is a podcast where we tell you the official story. We look at the paranormal conspiracies, unexplained phenomena, cryptids and true crime. And by the end, we'll tell you what really maybe happened.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:40] Yes. In this episode, we're asking the question, who killed Tupac? But first, let's introduce our guests. My man, 40 grand, Ruben Paul. I'll read this even though I know Ru. No, but Ruben is an accomplished comedian. An actor?

Ruben Paul: [00:00:53] I'm a writer also.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:55] And a writer. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We could talk about that. Yeah. He has performed on Comedy Central, The Late Late Show with Craig Ferguson, Lopez Tonight, Showtime's Specials, Russell Peters Presents BET's Comic, Few Comics Unleashed, and HBO's Def Comedy Jam, to name a few. Ruben has toured extensively and collaborated with some of the biggest names in comedy and entertainment, including Jamie Foxx, George Lopez, Cedric the Entertainer, and most recently, Russell Peters. He's he's done it all and traveled the world, too.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:24] As an actor, Ruben has been in films such as Deliver us from Eva with actor, rapper LL Cool J and Gabriel, Union and Ground Control with Kiefer Sutherland. Ruben has also had a great guest starring television roles on the Jamie Foxx Show, a reoccurring role in Pensacola, Wings of Gold, and a regular cast member on BET's Hidden Camera show socially offensive behavior with D.L. Hughley.

Ruben Paul: [00:01:45] Well, lots of shows that aren't on air anymore.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:50] I pulled that from your website.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:01:53] What's good Ru?

Ruben Paul: [00:01:55] Man. All is well, dude. All is well. Happy to be here, you know, staying busy doing what I do.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:02:00] That's what's up and deliver us from eva eva that was a while back when you did the. Was that the one you had to stutter or.

Ruben Paul: [00:02:06] Yeah, that's the one that.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:02:07] You Killed that man.

Ruben Paul: [00:02:07] Yeah, it was. It was it was great, man. It's just funny. In this business when you like, you just never know what is going to resonate with the audience sometimes. So you just you just keep going. But that's that was one of the roles that I played that, you know, I'd be somewhere and someone just start snapping their fingers, go, hey, man, you're the hey you the new stuttering dude. And I'm like, Yeah. And even to this day, no matter, that was shit. I mean, I can't even remember how long ago that was. 15 years ago or so.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:02:36] Right, right.

Ruben Paul: [00:02:37] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:02:37] Like, that's a device people use stuttering and you have to play it just so like, because you know what I mean? It's one of those things you can kind of overdo and I think you just crushed it. He just was. Well.

Ruben Paul: [00:02:47] I had a friend that I grew up with who stuttered, so I just did him. So that's why it just it was really easy for me to do, you know, even in the audition, you know. And that was one of the few auditions that before I walked out of the room, I knew I got it. It was up between me and one other person. And it was actually a big name.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:08] Right. Can we say can we say who it was?

Ruben Paul: [00:03:10] They wanted Rick Fox for that role, remember?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:13] Right. Right. He's too smooth. I know. I know. Rick Fox. We we studied with same acting coach.

Ruben Paul: [00:03:18] And before I walked out there, like, yo, you said, just, you know, be straight up with you. We went out to Rick Fox for this. We don't know if he's going to do it. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:26] Right.

Ruben Paul: [00:03:27] But after seeing you, if he doesn't do it, you know, you'll get the part.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:30] Oh, that's what's up. That's your a shout out to Rick, though. He's solid.

Ruben Paul: [00:03:33] Oh, absolutely.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:34] Great basketball player and really good actor too.

Ruben Paul: [00:03:36] He probably does. And I've run in. I've never really brought that story up to him or whatever. But yeah, but I was right for that part. He wasn't.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:44] No, you killed it. And yeah, stuttering is like being drunk.

Ruben Paul: [00:03:46] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:46] It's. It's like if I played a drunk person, it's not going to be.

Ruben Paul: [00:03:50] Yeah, because you don't drink, right?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:03:54] Did you know you always wanted to be a comedian?

Ruben Paul: [00:03:56] Yeah, I instinctually, yes, but I didn't make the decision till I was in college and I was a theater major and I was taking all these acting classes and it was actually my acting teacher that was like, Hey, have you ever thought of doing stand up? And I was like, What am I do I suck at this? She's like, No, she's like, I think you're a really talented actor, but you just have a comedic sensibility.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:18] Right? Right.

Ruben Paul: [00:04:19] You take lines that weren't intended to be funny,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:22] Right?

Ruben Paul: [00:04:22] And make them funny or you find the humor in things. And I told her I was like, actually, I was thinking about doing it. I really didn't know how to get started. And then it kind of took off from there.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:32] And and, you know, as a comic, like we said, we didn't have writer. And you said, I'm a writer, too.

Ruben Paul: [00:04:37] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:37] And that's just it. You're like a writer on stage. You're a writer, actor, director.

Ruben Paul: [00:04:41] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:41] Because you write the jokes, you act them out.

Ruben Paul: [00:04:43] Absolutely.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:43] And you kind of direct the scene if you if you will.

Ruben Paul: [00:04:48] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:48] And it's funny you said that because I get two diametrically opposed compliments and I take them both graciously.

Ruben Paul: [00:04:54] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:55] But sometimes they reflect the person more than they reflect me. Right.

Ruben Paul: [00:04:57] Always.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:58] Because some people say you're such a you're a great writer.

Ruben Paul: [00:05:01] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:01] Man, you are. You're writing. And those people, they want, they in their minds that better performers than me.

Ruben Paul: [00:05:08] Yes.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:08] So they have to give me the writing.

Ruben Paul: [00:05:09] Yeah. Come on.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:10] Yeah. And then some people say like that's if I meant like the ha ha.

Ruben Paul: [00:05:14] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:14] Right. But if I go to like a hipster room, they'll say, oh, your performance.

Ruben Paul: [00:05:22] Is it is funny because. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:23] You're so friendly and likable because they need to be the smart writers. So they got to give me that part of it.

Ruben Paul: [00:05:28] It's funny that you say that because being a writer should never feel like a good writer. It should never feel like it's a diss in the comedy world. But sometimes people say that to imply that, Hey, man, you should be a writer, not a performer. That's like, that's that little dig, like, oh, man.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:47] Sometimes the host is helping you out.

Ruben Paul: [00:05:49] Yes,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:49] Right. Other times he's cuing them to not like you. It depends on who the host is, because sometimes he'll go, oh, this next guy, y'all got to listen. You know, get done. Yeah, man.

Ruben Paul: [00:06:01] I'm telling this dude celebrity, I got to pay attention. Really? They got they have to pay attention. I'm not dynamic enough to make them pay attention.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:11] Right.

Ruben Paul: [00:06:12] Yeah. Yeah. But, you know, here's like you said, it reflects them more than it reflects you. I mean, we do what we do as I've been doing it longer and longer and longer, I pay less attention to anything anybody says.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:26] Right? Right

Ruben Paul: [00:06:26] Unless it's a valid critique and it's coming from somebody that, you know, is qualified to give you that critique.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:33] And you run with some you run with the biggest dudes.

Ruben Paul: [00:06:37] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:37] In, in the whole thing. Which means they respect you.

Ruben Paul: [00:06:40] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:41] And what's that been like because I mean you've, you've.

Ruben Paul: [00:06:43] Well for me. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:44] Lopez what Ced whoever you run with like. 

Ruben Paul: [00:06:46] Well, here's the irony and I don't know if me and you have ever talked. About this. To be in a position where you collaborate with some of these guys and write to me, it's still I don't want to say surprising, but it's it's one of those things where the people that you're working with are the people you idolized.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:02] Right?

Ruben Paul: [00:07:03] And now they're coming to you, asking you for your opinion. You know, I know sometimes I mean, earlier on, years ago, I remember George asking me something and I was like, I learned all this from you.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:14] Right.

Ruben Paul: [00:07:14] From watching you, you know what I mean? But I think to be a good writer and to learn from like you can learn from anybody on any level.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:24] Absolutely.

Ruben Paul: [00:07:24] You can learn from open micers you can learn from that because you could watch someone go, oh, I see exactly what they did wrong. I used to do that right before.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:32] Absolutely.

Ruben Paul: [00:07:32] And I think when you're working with some of the best, there's things that you can learn and incorporate into what you do.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:40] Right? Right.

Ruben Paul: [00:07:41] And that's always been important to me. So to work with these guys and to be able to have the felt me as the filter of everything that I've learned is kind of cool because I have a different perspective. I think one of my gifts is, is to be able to see comedy from the audience's perspective.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:58] Yeah, you know, I was just going to say, like, it seems like with these dudes, you're like the guy who is their peer at this point. You have their peer.

Ruben Paul: [00:08:06] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:07] But also, you know what it's like to be in the world. And for them, it's like they they don't know what it's like to be in the world anymore. So you're that you're like their anchor?

Ruben Paul: [00:08:15] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:15] Sometimes in a sense.

Ruben Paul: [00:08:17] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:18] Right.

Ruben Paul: [00:08:18] Absolutely.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:19] And tell me about the LA scene. I'm always intrigued by people. I started comedy in LA because I didn't start here and it seemed like it's a real hard to do. So what was it like back in the day compared to now? And I think that'll lead us to the topic to actually.

Ruben Paul: [00:08:31] Well, biggest compliment I've ever gotten. Well, one of the biggest compliments was years ago. Chappelle was like, You started doing comedy in LA? And I go, Yeah. And he goes, Man, it's crazy how good you are for somebody who started doing comedy in L.A..

Ruben Paul: [00:08:46] And I took that as a compliment. I didn't even take it as a slight back then. But when you go to New York and just the amount of stage time you can get, anybody who does standup will tell you that the more stage time you get, the better you'll be if you're taking the stage time seriously.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:09:03] Right? Right.

Ruben Paul: [00:09:03] So to be able to do multiple sets in a night, night in and night out, there's just really no substitute for that. And I think when I started out here in LA, the comedy scene I started in was much different. Like I started doing when I started doing comedy, I was doing only black clubs in LA and there was a number of bar shows and nightclub shows that would happen. So I was getting to three spots, sometimes in a night starting out. Even though most people weren't aware of these shows in these rooms, you know, they're very, you know, comedy is very segregated in LA also. Well, I think comedy segregated everywhere, everywhere in general. But for me, being able to do those spots, do those shows, and then when I started branching off doing Latino rooms, and then I started doing the white rooms, and I don't I don't want to say mainstream because if they're going to call them black rooms and Latino rooms and Asian rooms, let's call the other ones what they are. They're white shows. So when I started doing all all of the shows, then the number of spots I was doing just increased. Like I'd be at the Laugh Factory, then I'd drive to Montebello and do tortillas, and then I would try to, you know, Long Beach and do whatever bar or restaurant show. Then I would drive to all these places, you know. So it was just a part of my hustle.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:25] But like what was the hip hop scene as it related to comedy and what was the crossover? And did you were you there for some of that?

Ruben Paul: [00:10:33] Yeah, well, absolutely. And what's funny is, like sometimes when I hear like old cuts, old hip hop songs, it reminds me of a specific year in comedy because whatever the hottest song is, that's what the comedian is going to come up to, you know? So if you're seeing and that's a real black room thing also because, you know, when you go come there, like, all right, you next and you got to be like, Yo, man, play. You got that new song by Dr. Dre. It's like Dre and Snoop, right? You know what I mean? It's like G thing. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Play that, you know? I mean, these were in the songs at first coming out and hitting them because in a black room, again, you want every. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:15] Every advantage.

Ruben Paul: [00:11:16] Every advantage you can get. So if you start off with the right song, it puts the audience in the right mood, which gives you an opportunity.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:25] Absolutely. But the song Can't Be too hot because then they don't want the song to stop.

Ruben Paul: [00:11:30] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:31] And then it's like, Shut up, we want to hit a song.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:33] So you listen to hip hop and tell me who your favorite rappers are.

Ruben Paul: [00:11:36] West Coast or just in general?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:37] In general? I mean, is there way is there a difference, first of all?

Ruben Paul: [00:11:40] Yeah. Well,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:41] Koji's a big West Coast guy.

Ruben Paul: [00:11:44] I'd say this. I used to get a lot of flack when I was younger because most of the artists that I liked were East Coast artists.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:50] Oh, man.

Ruben Paul: [00:11:51] And but that's because that's where hip hop started. That's what you listen to. Even being in LA and you turned on K-day. It wasn't a lot of West Coast artists on k-day. Kate was the AM station that was really the hip hop hub for the West Coast when I was growing up from, you know, Jay-Z to Nas, you know, Biggie, Snoop, who I like. I like game. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:12:16] All East Coast and one guy from Mississippi.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:24] So here are the facts. With any suspicious murder, we can always count on one suspect to be consistently turned to the government.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:12:31] Of course.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:31] Of course. Yeah, of course. Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:12:33] One theory suggests that the CIA killed Tupac for using his music to give a voice to street gangs. Another says the Jewish Defense League killed Tupac to cover up their hip hop extortion racket, which I don't know about that. Well, in New York, there we have the hip hop police. They extort hip hop artists in a sense.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:49] Yeah.

Ruben Paul: [00:12:50] But they're really trying to get the dudes that the hip hop is hang out around and they use the hip hoppers to get to them. But I never heard this one because to me it would seem like the Jewish people involved would be on the production side and they wouldn't want their cash cow to.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:04] I mean, it's anti-Semitic. It's always.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:05] Yeah, yeah, it's crazy. Yeah. I mean, that, that whole thing about the Jewish Defense League, it's most likely related to some anti-Semitic plot, you know, to paint Jewish people as villains.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:14] However, the central figure in the debate is Suge Knight and the Crips gang known for being pit against Tupac. Knight was coincidentally behind the wheel that fateful night and escape with no bullet wounds. When the word got out about the murder, much of the hate was pinned on Knight.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:29] Yes. Now, these might be a bit of a stretch. Maybe a better question to ponder would be, is Tupac really dead?

Ruben Paul: [00:13:35] So Suge was a blood.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:38] Exactly. Yeah.

Ruben Paul: [00:13:38] And so, you know, I'll let you guys get into.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:42] No, no, no. Tell us what you're thinking.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:44] Sugar was a blood snoop is the crip.

Ruben Paul: [00:13:46] Yeah. And I just I think, you know, during that time, I almost like I remember it vividly because that was during the whole Pac Biggie feud, East Coast, West Coast thing. And it just started becoming bigger and bigger and bigger with magazines like the Source and vibe and all that, having all these covers and you got to understand East Coast had such a stranglehold on hip hop at the time, and then it's like the West Coast just came and just started dropping hit after hit after hit after hit where we were on the West Coast. We're dominating the charts.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:23] Absolutely. In fact, Big Biggie was part of like stopping that flow. Like he was trying to dam it up because before Big, even Big had said, I want to sell records like Snoop.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:34] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:35] Like Nas Whole thing was like overlooked because. 

Ruben Paul: [00:14:38] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:39] At that point the West was winning early 90s was winning.

Ruben Paul: [00:14:41] And I think Nas was more. Nas was a good writer. Yeah, that's a callback, you know what I mean? Nas, you're really good writer, you know what I mean? But he was respected as a lyricist, but never really had.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:56] Not for the clubs.

Ruben Paul: [00:14:56] He never had commercial Hits and playing in the clubs and stuff like that. And you got to understand, you know, being in the midst of it and not really being, you know, I was, you know, even back then I was conscious and pro-black and, you know, so Dwayne can relate to sometimes black people. We feel like we're battling two sides our college educated, you know, being articulate. And then just the hood side of just where we come from, how the music is, what it represents. And I think for me, gangsta rap was what we were trying to avoid, you know, like because there was so much violence and everything, then you kind of don't want it. But the music was so dope and the stories were so true and relatable.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:37] We did an episode, we had Rass Kass one of my, one of my favorite episodes.

Ruben Paul: [00:15:40] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:41] And we talk about this other theory that.

Ruben Paul: [00:15:43] Rass Kass actually grew up in my neighborhood.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:45] Oh, is that right? And this is about he's he's dope dope dope. And we talked about, did the record company promote gangsta rap on purpose? Because it all goes from like 91. It's like de la soul arrested development beeds.

Ruben Paul: [00:16:02] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:03] Black Power,

Ruben Paul: [00:16:04] Public Enemy

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:06] public enemy.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:16:06] Like shooting you.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:07] To like yeah, just crack and but that was a response to the like the positivity was like, hey guys, we're trying to pick ourselves up. But the gangsta stuff was also really happening in the street. So it's a reflection of what was happening. You know, it wasn't like people weren't killing themselves, killing each other, and crack wasn't a thing.

Ruben Paul: [00:16:24] And I think that was around the time the phrase keeping it real.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:27] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Ruben Paul: [00:16:28] Came into, you know, public. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:31] Now speech. If you're listening from Arrested Development, I think you did keep it real as well.

Ruben Paul: [00:16:36] Yes. Not saying even it didn't.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:38] Even if Mr. Wendell didn't exist.

Ruben Paul: [00:16:45] Yeah, it Was it was just one of those things where. Yeah. It didn't mean that the rest of them weren't keeping it real, but gangster raps whole thing was like, we're just reporting what we're seeing in the streets on a day to day basis. And that was their reality. But to answer your question, did the record companies, you know, push that? I do think so. If we're talking about a conspiracy, I think a lot of times when it's music about black people harming each other and it definitely has an influence on the youth, whether we want to say it or not. And I know the excuses will when you watch. Arnold Schwarzenegger movie, does that make you violent? Well, if Arnold Schwarzenegger was wearing a blue rag and in his pants was sagging and he was in an Impala, it might.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:17:29] And it does make you violent. Like ten year olds beat up the eight year old brother.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:17:35] Wwf.

Ruben Paul: [00:17:36] Exactly. Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:17:39] But let's look at the scene and the shady circumstances in which Tupac died.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:17:43] Tupac was known to have worn a bulletproof vest everywhere he went. However, the one day he doesn't, coincidentally, is the day he dies. Even more concerning is comparing the height and weight statistics of the mortuary record versus Tupac's driver's license. There seems to be a major discrepancy on his driver's license. He's listed as 5'10", 168, but the mortuary records state him is six feet and 215 pounds. I mean, I didn't know bullets could be that heavy. It sounds like the classic bait and switch with the body. No.

Ruben Paul: [00:18:08] Well, I mean.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:18:10] That's that's a little crazy.

Ruben Paul: [00:18:12] I mean, let's just be honest. I'm 180 on my driver's license.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:18:19] Right. Right.

Ruben Paul: [00:18:19] But do you think shorter people do not give themselves a couple of more inches on their driver's license?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:18:23] That's true. But no, it said he was he was taller in the autopsy and he was 25. So he couldn't have been I don't think it was 215. He was just swoll.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:18:33] Yeah. No he wasn't that big yet.

Ruben Paul: [00:18:34] No.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:18:35] A famous photograph circulated around allegedly depicted Tupac and Suge Knight minutes before the incident. I think that's the one in the car. Yeah. However, the photo was dated September 8th, the day after the shooting. Some say in his album Ain't You Ain't Ain't Hard, Ain't Hard to Find. He might even be commenting on this occurrence. I heard rumors that a died. Murdered in cold blood. Traumatized pictures of me and my final states. You know, momma cried. But that was the fiction. Some coward got the story twisted. See, Tupac can make that rhyme, actually. So maybe it was a simple camera error. Or maybe Tupac is alive.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:19:09] And Tupac's last album, The Don Killumonati. That's like my favorite song, by the way, the seven day theory. He changed his on stage name, Machiavelli. This leads us to the Machiavelli theory that like Machiavelli, Tupac faked his own death. He might have dropped this hint in the album. Sometimes it has been of great moment. Sorry, I'm not going to do the Tupac rap. I just. It's probably better for the world sometimes. It's been a great moment while the fight is going on to disseminate words that pronounce the enemies. Actually, this is not Tupac. This is Machiavelli. Sorry. I was like, this doesn't sound like a rap. Enemy's captain to be dead or to have been conquered by another part of the army. Many times this has given victory to him who used it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:19:51] Now I will say, whether he's alive or dead, have you ever negotiated with someone? And negotiation is done. And then like because you think the negotiation is done, you exhale and relax. And then they throw in one more thing. They usually get that thing.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:20:06] It's like car dealerships.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:20:07] Yeah, yeah, it's like car dealerships. And so part of like, oh, I don't have to fight this guy anymore. And then like comedically, it's like and I'm going to finish the research here comedically. It's like when they tell you you don't you're not going up next because before you know, you're going to go on stage right where you get especially if it's a crazy crowd like I did the Laugh Factory a few weeks, maybe a month ago Sunday night. I'm thinking this just like Sunday. It used to be a clean show. So I show up and I'm like, That guy is not clean. This is weird. There's a guy on stage with a with a washcloth, like a little towel, you know, like a towel. Like you see a black dude with a towel.

Ruben Paul: [00:20:47] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:20:48] That's.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:20:49] What does that mean?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:20:49] It's fucking ghetto is what it means. Like, it's a sweat. It's a sweat. Towel. Like a little.

Ruben Paul: [00:20:57] I never used to snort when I laugh. That's is ghetto. That's what that means.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:21:02] Because I go, I go. He had a sweat towel boy. And he's me and he's funny, but, you know, he's being dirty. Now, realize, fuck, this is a black show. It's switched.

Ruben Paul: [00:21:12] Yeah

Dwayne Perkins: [00:21:12] It's fine. I did fine. But I had to get.

Ruben Paul: [00:21:15] Like, change.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:21:16] I had to, like, think of what I was going to do and reassess the situation. And so what happens is they say, you're not going on, you exhale and then they go, you're next. Mentally, you're not even pinch hitters. Even in soccer, everybody gets a little bit of warning, hey, you're about to. So there is a tactic where I think it's effective to, like, tell someone the fight is over, but it's not over. That's that's what that that's what that means.

Ruben Paul: [00:21:40] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:21:41] Some other miscellaneous information supports this. In September 2015, September 2015, David Meyers, a retired Las Vegas police officer, claimed to have helped Tupac fake his own death for $1.5 million. Other claims made by Meyers include that 50,000 was used to procure a body double, and about 30 people were also paid to orchestrate his death. He also paid painted Suge Knight as a main player in the whole scheme. However, it should be noted that a fake ID photo was used to show the former officer on his deathbed. Maybe he followed Tupac's example and faked his own death too.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:22:17] There have been various Tupac sightings around the globe some say he fled to. Cuba to live with his aunt, Assata Shakur, an African American activist and Black Panther. Others say he's in Somalia with rapper Yaki Kafi, who was murdered in New Jersey about three months after Tupac's death. The last place cited for Tupac is hiding is in South Africa. I guess.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:35] Yeah, that's crazy. So I guess the question isn't who killed Tupac? But it is, is he still alive? And if so, what is he doing?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:22:42] I don't know. All right, well, why can't he be in Asia?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:45] I guess he would stand out.

Ruben Paul: [00:22:46] Yeah, I think that he'd. Be identified pretty quickly.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:22:50] But nobody would look for him.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:52] Right. That's true. Even though I went to Cambodia recently and I can blend in. Yeah, I could blend in Cambodia.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:22:57] Are they even Asians, though. That's like South East Asian.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:59] I know. I know. 

Ruben Paul: [00:23:04] Asian is Asian. If Filipinos can claim Asian Asian.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:23:09] Then some Filipinos will say they're Asian, some will say they're Polynesian. But I'm like, you're not Polynesian. I think I think you're Asian.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:15] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:23:15] And it's just a.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:16] It's a political it's a political thing, though.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:23:18] Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's a big thing. So. Wow, what a whirlwind of conspiracies. When we return, we'll put our minds together and figure out what really maybe happened.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:29] If you like the unofficial official story, you'll like Strange year Strange History podcast with host Jason Horton. Listen to this trailer and go subscribe.

Jason Horton: [00:23:36] If you like weird and strange history as much as I do, then I have the podcast for you. I'm Jason Horton, host of Strange Year. Each episode I break down the strange history and cultural happenings during that year, like 1977, the Wow Signal 1963 three Tramps Theory 1844 The Millwright Movement 1997 The Phoenix Lights 1896 The Shortest War 2004 Benjamin Kyle 1518 The Dancing Plague 1985 The Move Bombing 1972 Remote Viewing. So to get your weekly Weird History Fix, pause the podcast you're listening to right now and subscribe to Strange Year wherever you listen to podcasts.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:24:14] Now that we've discussed the facts, let's give our theories.

Ruben Paul: [00:24:17] First of all, I don't believe Tupac is alive.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:24:20] Okay.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:24:20] Nice.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:24:21] No.

Ruben Paul: [00:24:23] To me, I mean, I understand conspiracy theories, but then I understand using logic also.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:24:30] Well.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:24:31] You can't use logic and conspiracy.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:24:33] I feel you on that. And I'll let you finish. Like I'm working from home on that game show now, which is wonderful. But when we were working in person, they called me because I wear these pants that cut off and like the shorts that can be converted to pants. Yeah. And I just and I have like a like range. I have a kufi and it's always like literally sitting on top of my head. Like, I just I'm painting a picture that I don't really care. I don't follow. I just. I go in and do the job. I leave.

Ruben Paul: [00:24:58] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:24:58] They call. They say I dress homeless, chic or whatever. And so I'm not plugged in. I don't gossip or nothing. Yeah, but still in that setting, I know who's sleeping with who.

Ruben Paul: [00:25:08] Yes.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:09] And so it's what I'm saying. It's hard to keep a secret like me being a guy that wasn't looking to know who was sleeping with who. It still trickled down to me.

Ruben Paul: [00:25:18] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:18] So these kind of things, the hard part is how do you get that many people to, like, keep the secret?

Ruben Paul: [00:25:24] Yeah, especially black people. I'll tell you something. Don't say nothing. Know I saw Pac. You know, he Owned the Slauson swap me, right? I mean, yeah, that's how I'm making his cheese, man. He ain't even trippin no more. Like, really. I just feel like this. I mean, I get these so called theories, but what actually makes sense? I mean, you're looking at a guy who is just on the rise and was only going to get bigger, you know, and anybody who's been in this business knows how hard this business can be to reach his his level of success.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:26:09] Right.

Ruben Paul: [00:26:09] You know, and I think he had everything to live for. It's not like he was an artist on his way out, you know, who used to be hot.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:26:16] Like Elvis or something?

Ruben Paul: [00:26:18] Yeah. You know what I mean? That would make more sense. But Tupac is trying to get it, you know? And I think the whole theory of because he was uplifting his people, then you got to listen to Tupac's catalog.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:26:32] Right?

Ruben Paul: [00:26:32] Because, you know, not all of it was, you know, uplifting for the people. But what he some of the things he did say did resonate in the culture and for positivity and black women in these things. But, you know, these were little things dropped into a body of work that represented something else.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:26:52] Yeah,

Ruben Paul: [00:26:52] In my opinion.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:26:53] Right, right. If you fake your own death, right, on that level, you have two options. Reveal that you did so and become hated.

Ruben Paul: [00:26:59] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:00] Or be so much in obscurity that you, for all intents intents and purposes, are dead. So you kill yourself in either way. Right.

Ruben Paul: [00:27:06] And can I say this? Yes. Black people ain't gonna fake their own death because our mortality rate is what it is.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:12] Right. Anyway, so. So here's my theory. If he let's go. Go with he did fake his own death. He either has to be somewhere, somewhere where he blends in or where people mind their business. You know what I mean? Like, I know famous people who they live in certain little pockets in areas they might live in Malibu.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:27:31] I was going to say Malibu.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:32] And like they'll go to their local Starbucks. But everyone in that Starbucks, they they already know that Ryan Gosling comes here. So after two times, it's like, oh, that's Ryan Gosling. Then after that, it's just like it's just Ryan.

Ruben Paul: [00:27:43] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:44] And so that's how you avoid the famous treatment. You find local places you go to over and over again and no one, no one bothers you. 

Ruben Paul: [00:27:51] Familiarity.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:52] So with that said, I think he regrets it. I do think he regrets it for all the reasons you said. But I think Tupac faked his own death and he's living in an outpost in Alaska.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:28:05] This is Northern Exposure,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:06] Right? So half the people they don't have they have no idea who he is.

Ruben Paul: [00:28:10] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:11] So he changed his name. They didn't, they don't listen to rap.

Ruben Paul: [00:28:13] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:13] And a few people that do, they don't like the government, they, they get it. They're like, we're off the grid too.

Ruben Paul: [00:28:18] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:19] And his secret is safe with them. And it's so controlled, so far away. And every now and then, he regrets it. But he's got a situation up there. He's got he's got a girl up there. I don't know what she looks like. Let's say let's say she's a native, native to the area. And whenever he needs money, just drops an album and just, you know, he has his friends listen to it for like make sure they know, like he's not talking about PlayStation six, you know.

Ruben Paul: [00:28:48] So what what what. Friends would he have be listening to it? Just black friends back in the States. Or who would be who who would. He be sending it to? And they keep that type of secret.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:00] Right, right. Right. I would say that, you know what? Even though this guy has had his own troubles, I would say, Suge, you gotta it has to be someone who has something to lose. Suge has Suge, kind of even. I think he may be in jail now, but I think he has a lot to lose.

Ruben Paul: [00:29:12] He is in Jail.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:14] But whatever he's in jail for, he can be in jail for a lot more. Right?

Ruben Paul: [00:29:18] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:19] Even though he lost death row. So it maybe it's not Suge. Maybe it's the other co founder of death row whose name escapes me right now.

Ruben Paul: [00:29:25] Well, you know who owns it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:27] Snoop wwns it now. Yeah. Yeah, so it could be. It could even be Snoop. So he's got one. It may not be Snoop, but maybe, like, whoever I'm gonna tell you, it is not by name, whoever the person is who keeps going because he released, what, six albums posthumously? However you say that. So whoever keeps finding these new Tupac albums, that's the person, whoever's like. Guys, you won't believe this. I was just looking out my. You know how I have that box in the attic. Anyway. I found another Tupac album.

Ruben Paul: [00:30:01] I was looking For a heater. You know a little portable here. I was looking for it, and I found an album unreleased. Said it right on the envelope. Could you imagine that? You just see you. Open up a box and it just says unreleased album. He has them sitting around like paper plates.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:30:27] All right. That's a good one. Okay, so here's mine. So first, let me just say, he's probably I agree. He's probably not alive because he's he's he has a he was very vocal. He was the kind of guy that he couldn't keep his mouth shut. I mean, that's probably got him in trouble sometimes, so it'd be hard for him to stay quiet. But this is my theory already. So it started when he was a child. He was actually Japanese and he wanted to be cool. So he started wearing blackface.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:30:51] Can I stop you for one second? So Tupac is Japanese, but Cambodians aren't Asian anyway go ahead.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:30:59] But he wanted he was being he was being picked on because he was Japanese.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:03] Right. Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:03] He started wearing blackface.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:06] From a young age.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:07] From a very young age.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:07] Okay.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:08] And then he started rapping.

Ruben Paul: [00:31:09] Koji, are you Japanese by any chance?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:12] Coincidence?

Ruben Paul: [00:31:13] All right. Yeah. I need to know that. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:15] I'm About his age and about his height. I'm just Saying. And then he. He became popular.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:20] Yes,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:21] Right. Then somebody found out about it. He was hooking up with a girl, and then his makeup got smeared, and then she's, like, threatening. I'm going to. I'm going to go out.

Ruben Paul: [00:31:28] Wait a minute. This penis is a little too small.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:33] I was going to say a little too big.

Ruben Paul: [00:31:37] That's what you call a hacky stereotypical joke.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:41] And then instead of coming out and being this whole because, you know, obviously blackface hasn't been Ok for like, yeah. 20 years,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:47] Right? Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:48] He just faked his death.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:49] Interesting. Interesting.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:50] Now, that's why I was saying he was in Japan,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:52] Right?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:53] Because he's actually in Japan.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:54] Okay.

Ruben Paul: [00:31:55] Why does that sound like a Scooby Doo episode? He pulled off the mask. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:32:01] And I would have got away with it.

Ruben Paul: [00:32:03] If it wasn't for you, pesky kids. All right, go ahead. I'm sorry.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:32:12] I mean, his Features could be kind of Asian.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:32:14] 5'8" 165.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:32:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he wasn't in blackface. He was in black body because he had his shirt off all the time.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:32:21] Yeah, that was. But that was also okay. Plant paint, right?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:32:25] Yes. Yes

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:32:25] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:32:26] I'm not I don't hate that theory.

Ruben Paul: [00:32:29] You don't hate it. I despise it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:32:32] But I will say,

Ruben Paul: [00:32:33] I don't know know, if I Koji anymore.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:32:33] You know, you know how well you know the Kabuki theater thing. I once hooked up with a chick. She wasn't, but she has so much makeup on. I teased and said, You have like Kabuki makeup, like as a play. And then these guys have these dark makeup on this Japanese thing and they kind of like narrate the play. Is that Right?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:32:52] Yeah. It's like they don't talk.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:32:54] Right, right, right. So you got that. But also you have like there's a certain I don't understand it because I don't speak Japanese, but a certain type of Japanese guy that has a real deep voice. Sometimes when they talk and, you know, what's his name, who's half Japanese, the comic.

Ruben Paul: [00:33:07] Michael Yo,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:08] No, KT. 

Ruben Paul: [00:33:10] KT Tatara. Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:10] He has a great joke because he says in Japanese language, like when you say something like I guess what you're talking about comes at the end. And so that's why he says that's why when people when they people say something, they always go some someone says something. The other guy always goes, Oh, because it's not till the end that they understand what you just said, you know?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:28] Well, it's because Japanese is passive,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:30] Right?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:31] It's a very passive aggressive language.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:33] I see.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:33] Like, for example, like in a lot of American companies get in trouble because when they work with Japanese people, because like the Japanese boss will walk in and say, where is the copy machine? And a Japanese person would be like, Oh, here, I'll copy it for you.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:44] Oh right right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:45] But an American would be like, It's over there. Right,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:47] Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:48] Because like in Japan, you would never. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:50] Ask.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:50] You would never ask. So it comes at the end, right? So like, you wouldn't like if you're in my way, you'd never like fuck out of my way. It's like, hey, it would be nice if everyone thought about other people and wouldn't stand right in the middle of the walkway so that that people could walk through.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:04] But see that that can get you beat up in Brooklyn walking around like, Hey, wouldn't it be nice if you weren't in. My fucking way, right? Right. So anyway, when when Tupac rapped, he had that deep voice thing. And that's something to me that seems Japanese to me, just the way that like. The deep voice thing. You know what I'm talking about?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:34:26] No, but that's fine. I like that you're trying To help my theory along.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:31] [Makes a stereotypical deep voice] Who does that like?

Ruben Paul: [00:34:32] Bad comedians.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:35] Sumo wrestlers. 

Ruben Paul: [00:34:35] You come here now? We watch too much shitty comedy.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:40] Even in the movies with. Like, with the conviction. That deep voice.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:34:44] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:44] I guess all men of all races, when they want to be like felt, they go down a register or whatever.

Ruben Paul: [00:34:50] I'm going to whoop your ass. I mean that's you know, it's going to come down to be more intimidating.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:55] I know if I'm conveying it right. But that and that alone is what I think. Your theory could have some kind tie in.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:35:00] I appreciate the help. Yeah. All right. Okay. So we're at the point in the show where we decide we need to pick the unofficial official story, one that will once and for all answer the question. What do you guys think? Which theory do we want to go with?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:35:11] Well, I mean. We can't go with we could, but that he's just dead.

Ruben Paul: [00:35:17] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:35:18] You know, it's crazy, too. I want to say before we move on and how people are always saying Tupac is still alive, but no one says that about Biggie, they're like, Oh, no, he's dead.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:35:28] Why is that? Wait, why is that?

Ruben Paul: [00:35:29] Because cholesterol's going to. Get him anyway. He's going to die eventually before his time, man. Who killed me? MC Diabetes.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:35:44] Right, right, right. Krispy Kreme. Burger King. They all play the role. They all played that part.

Ruben Paul: [00:35:51] That's the conspiracy. All the fast food restaurants conspired to kill Big.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:35:56] So, yeah, I mean, I think I'd have to hear more of yours, Koji, but I also don't want to go with that. He's dead because in that kind of like. 

Ruben Paul: [00:36:02] I get that.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:36:03] So I got to go with the Alaska outpost. I think that as far fetched as it is could and the only thing is to that his mom passed away and I think his mom would be in on it. I don't know him. I didn't know him. But I don't think anybody's going to like their mom. I think they're dead. You know what I mean?

Ruben Paul: [00:36:17] I'll have to go with Koji stare.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:36:19] What?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:36:20] Yes,

Ruben Paul: [00:36:20] As I. As I, as I. As you went back into the Alaska outpost. I'd rather believe I would rather believe. As offensive as this is that a Japanese dude painted himself black in fooled the whole entire inner city in the world.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:36:40] There is something To be said about that. Yeah, like, if you could have pulled that off. That's hilarious.

Ruben Paul: [00:36:49] That'd be. And then he just takes the makeup off and then he blends right into the society and he's alive. And well 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:36:56] And when we knew him for the most part, not in juice, but for the most part he had a bald head, so who knows? Maybe he had Straight hair. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:04] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:04] Yeah. So now, coach, you're the tiebreaker, and it was your theory, so. I don't know.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:09] I'm going with these Japanese. Of course.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:10] Okay. Okay.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:11] I'm not going to deny that it's me.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:14] So you're Tupac.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:15] I'm Tupac.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:15] Oh, it gets even deeper. Okay.

Ruben Paul: [00:37:18] I think I'm going to go the outpost then. Let me see your abs.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:25] So Tupac is in. In Japan.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:27] He's just. Just chillin.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:29] Don't you think he would miss it? Missed the the fanfare or just he couldn't pull it off?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:33] Probably doing some Japanese music now.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:35] Interesting.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:35] Yeah. Japanese rap. Japanese rap. That's like the simplest shit, like. It's like a-i-u-e-o.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:40] Everything rhythmes. Yeah.

Ruben Paul: [00:37:43] Here's another thing.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:44] A-i-u-e-o

Ruben Paul: [00:37:45] We've all traveled. Hip hop is huge in Japan.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:50] Yeah.

Ruben Paul: [00:37:50] American hip hop

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:52] breakdancing. All the. All the elements.

Ruben Paul: [00:37:53] Yeah, I know DJs. American DJs who go over there all the time and will spend a couple of weeks there just deejaying at clubs.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:01] Right right right.

Ruben Paul: [00:38:02] Maing a killing. And what's interesting is hear from what some of my friends have told me here. When you go to a club to see a DJ, it's still a party and people are dancing in Japan. They go watch the DJ like they listen to music and they're gathered around. And they Watch them Spin For hours.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:38:18] That's why that's a cultural thing.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:19] Yeah

Ruben Paul: [00:38:20] yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:38:20] That's like the the sneakerheads in Japan. Like the collecting is different and collecting like, say, you got a Picasso, for example, you want to put it on your wall so everyone walks in, sees it.

Ruben Paul: [00:38:29] Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:38:29] In Japan, it's the opposite. You never want to show it to anybody. So the sneaker heads, like I did this exhibition with the Sneakerheads and they just put it in their closet. No one ever sees it. And like and to convince them to show it, it's like the hardest thing,

Ruben Paul: [00:38:41] Really.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:38:42] So it's like.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:43] It's like an Nft at that point.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:38:43] Exactly. It's like whereas like more people see a Picasso, the more valuable gets right and more people know it's like. It's like a sports team. It's only valuable when you sell.

Ruben Paul: [00:38:51] Why do you think that is?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:38:53] I don't know. That's a good question. It's just that's how they collect and that's how, like, they just like they're not there to dance. They're there to watch a person do his music.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:00] Yeah,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:00] Right. It's just like it's just a show where, you know, like the DJ here is more it's part of something bigger. It's like part of a dance or part of it.

Ruben Paul: [00:39:08] I remember doing a show years ago in Guam and a lot of the Japanese would go to Guam to vacay or to shop or whatever. And I remember going to a club and it was all Japanese. And man, you would have thought that they just studied MTV and every right, every hip hop video, because they had all the moves, all the dances. And, you know.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:34] I had the same experience in Okinawa like they were.

Ruben Paul: [00:39:37] Yeah. Okinawa also. Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:38] Crazy with the breakdancing, really. I was younger then, so, like, I could kind of hold my own, but I was like, these guys are next level.

Ruben Paul: [00:39:45] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:47] It was next level.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:48] Absolutely.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:49] Well, that's why, like, sometimes not as much anymore. But back in the day, like ten years ago, you walked down the aisle like I'd be in Pasadena here, and I'd see some Japanese people wearing, like, do rags and like super baggy pants. And like, I'm like,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:59] Yeah, yeah,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:59] You're going to get yourself shot. Like, what the fuck are you doing?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:40:02] Like in Japan? And I've seen more than any other Asian country or race or whatever Asian nationality. I've seen Japanese men permanent hair.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:40:13] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:40:14] To like, make it look like a fro type kind of thing or.

Ruben Paul: [00:40:18] You win Koji you win. More and more thinking about it.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:40:24] But you know what's Interesting about that? Like the kind of the being able to do all these different things. I mean, one of the reasons we never colonized as a country was we changed so quickly. You know, we were able to adjust like so for example, in 1865, when Commodore Perry comes to Japan and opens it, we went from being like a country with people with swords.

Ruben Paul: [00:40:41] Wait a minute. Even the name 2Pac could be translated as Japanese symbols or something. And they put it down, translated into English.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:40:52] Amaru actually is a Japanese word.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:40:54] Yeah,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:40:54] Tupac Amaru Shakur. But we're going.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:40:57] Tupac (in fake Japanese voice).

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:40:58] And we're going to name our because I want to name my kid Tupac, but my wife was against it. And then I wanted to name a Amaru, which is his middle name. And then that means like to have too much in excess in Japanese.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:08] Interesting.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:41:08] And so it was a weird word like for Japanese it would be weird. But here we.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:12] Have a cousin name. Amaru.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:41:13] Yeah, but in Japan so they like they went from being like a country that carried swords and did samurai fighting to a country that was wearing western clothes within like three years when so so right away it went from being like, oh, well, I guess we're not doing that anymore. And then they started building, they started building ships and people are sitting in chairs and it went from like super fast. Whereas most countries the problem, a lot of countries is that they're like they're holding on to things so much. And then the Europeans come and then they're the ones that change the country.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:39] Right. What's crazy about that that's really interesting is because you think of Japan as not opening themselves up. I think they don't open themselves up for like you to do it like they're saying, yeah, it's like we'll do it.

Ruben Paul: [00:41:50] Yeah. No need to be colonized.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:41:52] Yeah, we're going to, we're going to do it ourselves. So because the whole point of it, so that they saw what was happening in China, they saw was having they're like, fuck that, we don't want that. And so they need to be a Western. That's why by 1904, they're taking on Russia in a war because they're like, No, I'm not interested in that. But people forget about Japan is before World War Two, Japan was seen as a hero to non non European countries. It was the first country they fought in World War. They fought in World War One on the Allies side. And they got. They're trying to get colonies. They're trying to get. Like taking over. So they were The first. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:22] Is that when they were. Is that pre kind of trying to take over China or.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:42:25] Yeah. So they were seen as like once they took over China became bad. But before that they were seen as the one non European country that was doing it to the European right. Then they start acting like Europeans and that's when everything went crazy. Like when they took over China and Korea and started killing and raping people. Then. Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:41] And then the Philippines Too.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:42:42] They took over all of Asia. That's why it's part of being Asian. All right. So that's the official story. We'll take another break. And when we come back, we'll do a lightning round on which celebrities are really dead and which ones are really alive.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:54] Since we now know Tupac is alive and well in Japan, what other celebrities might also be alive?

Ruben Paul: [00:43:00] Well, first of all, I like how you have Osama bin Laden as a celebrity.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:06] But what would you call it, Islamic terrorist?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:43:10] Well, I would like to talk about Andy Kaufman really quick. And I think I feel like he died from like cancer or something when something kind of serious that you don't know what it was. So he's in like all likelihood not alive. But of the list that we have here, I like Andy Kaufman only because he did so much performance art and so many wild stunts that that would I would love to think that that was his final stunt was just to fake his own death and like just sort of like the longest joke ever. And then like a year from now, he just comes out here I come to save the day, you know. So I would I would say he's alive. Mainly because I would. I hope he is.

Ruben Paul: [00:43:47] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:43:47] Yeah, yeah,

Ruben Paul: [00:43:48] Yeah. I could see that. I thought the same thing when I saw his name. He could definitely be alive and Steve Jobs could be alive.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:43:55] Yeah.

Ruben Paul: [00:43:55] Just because the amount of money that he had, if he just wanted to disappear, he can.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:43:59] Absolutely. Also, you know, they say well, they always say Walt Disney has himself frozen somewhere.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:44:04] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:44:04] Freezing yourself was the like if you had fuck you money in 1950 and you're like, how can I live forever? Yeah, let me freeze myself. But that's not the way you do it nowadays. The way to do it now is you upload your consciousness.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:44:17] So I was going to say.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:44:17] Yeah, yeah,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:44:18] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:44:18] So so who I mean, Steve Jobs, of all the people we can think of.

Ruben Paul: [00:44:23] Can do that.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:44:24] You know, here's this 8000 questionnaire, 8000 question questionnaire. Right. Because I think if you if we all answer 8000 questions like whoever, a close semblance of proximity of your personality will be captured and you just upload it and then wait until they figure out something and find a suitable body and download yourself back into it.

Ruben Paul: [00:44:45] Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:44:46] Why would he want to live forever? I mean, why would he fake his death? Steve Jobs?

Ruben Paul: [00:44:51] Well, just I mean, when you have that much money and you've done everything, you know, sometimes, you know, you might want to try something new.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:44:58] Also, the thing about like, you know, the show was a show on HBO. So good Silicon Valley, great show. And the ending is particularly really, really good and. 

Ruben Paul: [00:45:08] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:45:09] And like prophetic as well. So Steve Jobs would fake his own death if he did. Okay. You're a part of this great, great thing, right? Personal computing, you know, the advancement of all that stuff and the Internet and all of that. But that is also what's going to destroy us.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:45:25] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:45:26] And so maybe you don't want to either take accountability or you don't want to be here for it or, you know, because right now you go out on top as a hero. But 20 years from now, we might be like all these guys. We might look at them like, you guys are the reason why.

Ruben Paul: [00:45:40] you guys are the reason why. You know? And somebody like that would see it coming before everybody else. Like you know what?

Ruben Paul: [00:45:44] Absolutely.

Ruben Paul: [00:45:45] They this is all going to go to shit and about 10 years.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:45:48] Capitalism is is can't sustain.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:45:50] It was crazy I was watching war games Matthew Broderick with my son over the weekend and it was crazy. It was like like we're watching it. My son was like, Well, why are they doing that? I'm like, Well, back in the day that you had to go to the library and look through cards, and he's like, Why don't you go on on the computer? Or, you know, I was like, and then they're like, these rooms full of computers, like, you know, my cell phone probably has more power than that entire. Room of computers all day. You know. It's crazy, like and then everything was like that. I was like, yeah, this is, you know, like, you wouldn't have a backdoor password that you could use Joshua to get into, like a just like.

Ruben Paul: [00:46:22] Would you like to play a game?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:46:26] Well. Here's the I was talking to a guy yesterday, the fallout of all that. I was in a Starbucks yesterday and I had a show, but I got there super early. So I went to a Starbucks and I ordered and it was packed. A table opened up. I was like, yes, put my coat on a chair. I'm not going to leave my computer there, you know, from Brooklyn. But I put my coat. This is like, hey, this is my yeah, you know, went to the bathroom, came out my tea and my sandwich were ready while I'm in the bathroom. I had chairs moving and I just said, this isn't I get out my, my jacket is now someone took it off the chair.

Ruben Paul: [00:47:01] Oh.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:47:02] Left it on the table.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:47:03] Wow.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:47:04] Took the chair and like so there's a table there with no chairs. I get my impossible breakfast sandwich and my tea and I'm mad as shit and I'm standing there eating my sandwich at the table. I'm standing at a table eating my sandwich. And so I go to this other guy. Who I thought moved it. And so luckily I contained myself because I was like, Hey, man, are you using this chair? And I don't know if he didn't hear me or didn't know what the fuck or he thought I was some kind of crazy person or whatever. He's like, Yeah, I'm using it. So I'm like, Okay, maybe he's waiting for someone. And I said to him, You know, my coat was on the chair. He's like, he just shook his head.

Ruben Paul: [00:47:40] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:47:40] He didn't know what the fuck I was talking about. And I was like, I looked at him like, You're lucky, man. Ten years ago, I'd have knocked you the fuck out for this.

Ruben Paul: [00:47:46] Straight up.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:47:47] But it Wasn't him. So thank God I didn't. I didn't like. He just was a dude minding his own business. He could have been more informative and more friendly, but he was just minding his own business. Then I look over and it's like these three teenyboppers and they. They have chairs, so they moved the chairs. It's just clear across the restaurant. And so the reason why I'm saying all this is that they didn't acknowledge me. They saw me standing there. It was thank God they were only there for like 2 minutes, I promise you. And then he left. So you knew you were leaving? They ordered water. They didn't even get anything to drink. They didn't pay for anything. I'm a paid. I paid to be here. And they were like literally 12, 13, 14. And I'm a grown ass man. If I say something to them, they're females it's going to be scary and whatever, because they can be inconsiderate and then boom, immediately I'm going to play scared. They're going to be the big angry black man or whatever. So I got the chair back is fine. So the reason why I say all of this is like you're saying, your son was like, why don't you just why don't you just do that? The ease of everything has made people completely, like, have no empathy, no consideration, because not like they're bad people. I don't know these girls. They may not be they. It didn't even dawn on him that I can't have this chair.

Ruben Paul: [00:48:57] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:48:57] Isn't that like.

Ruben Paul: [00:48:59] They operate on a higher level of entitlement than we've ever seen?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:49:02] Right. And it's and. It's it's not even conscious to them that they're so entitled. So they just it was just sort of like, this is in my way. I'm going to move it. And this is what the Internet has done. It's made everything so instant that you don't even think that you have to wait for anything.

Ruben Paul: [00:49:16] So, you know, it's funny, a friend of mine recently said, I don't get mad at white people anymore.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:49:22] Right? Right.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:49:22] I go, Really? Why not? He goes, Dude, think about being in this country in the sense of entitlement that they have. He goes, So there's certain things I don't snap upon. Go, Oh, it's always been like this for them, right? So they think it's okay. Like we're in New York and he goes, he goes, Watch this. So we're walking, we turn the corner. It's a bunch of white people standing in the middle of the sidewalk where people and just standing there.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:49:45] Yeah.

Ruben Paul: [00:49:45] Like you would have to go into the street to get around because.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:49:48] No, bueno.

Ruben Paul: [00:49:50] They just have no gauge of just like, go around us.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:49:54] This is why like when a lot of, like white people go to other countries where it's not dominated by white people, they feel they feel like, I'll turn off.

Ruben Paul: [00:50:01] Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:50:01] And I was told I.

Ruben Paul: [00:50:02] Yeah because everything doesn't revolve around them.

Ruben Paul: [00:50:04] And I remember telling him I'm like, well, this is how I feel all the time in America. And do you understand how like it would feel that I walk into a room? I'm the only one of my kind. Not not even other people of color. Just me.

Ruben Paul: [00:50:14] Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:50:14] And it's just in there, like. Oh, like, you know, but it doesn't reconcile. But you know, like to go to your point, like, I mean, what white replacement theory is this crazy theory that they're being replaced even though like, you know, I always have to I'm Asian, so I'm good at math and I'm like, even when, you know, we're going to become a majority minority.

Ruben Paul: [00:50:29] Yeah

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:50:29] You're still in the lead. You're like 48%.

Ruben Paul: [00:50:32] 100%. Exactly.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:50:33] And when's the last time black people, Latino people and Asian people worked together on anything, right?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:50:37] Yeah. For a long period of time.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:50:40] Other than like.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:50:40] Right. And the other thing is, England, if you go to the UK, right, there's a reason why the pound is still stronger than the dollar, because once you set the wheels in motion, so UK is just, you know, country that's as big as California and they've conquered the whole world, colonized the whole world. They don't have those colonies as much anymore. Their pound is still stronger than our dollar because once you own everything, you own it in perpetuity. You know what I mean? So it doesn't matter after. After the wheels are in motion. You're good. Unless you really, really flub it up somehow. Yeah. So? So they're going to be straight and I just think. But the internet. Yeah, I think Steve Jobs is like and you know, you know, you know you're engaging in slave labor.

Ruben Paul: [00:51:23] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:51:23] You know, you have you have nets and factories. People can't you don't even let your workers kill themselves.

Ruben Paul: [00:51:30] Yeah, you have nets. We have the foresight to know that stuff is about to go wrong. And you had a hand in it. And you can disappear. You can disappear with this.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:51:41] I'm not saying they did that, but that would be the reason why. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:51:43] Maybe he goes with Elon Musk to Mars.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:51:45] Yeah, there you go.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:51:45] Yeah, maybe they go and.

Ruben Paul: [00:51:46] He could afford to do it.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:51:48] I think it's Princess Diana. I mean,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:51:50] Interesting

Dwayne Perkins: [00:51:51] Because I always thought I mean, even when it happened, I was I was like, this is such a coincidence. She wants to leave the family. She wants to get out of the Spotlight,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:51:59] Leave her kids.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:51:59] You have to do what you have to do. But she can always tell the kids that she's alive.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:52:02] Maybe I like that scenario because, I mean, she cosigned on the girl from Compton. What's her name? Oh, Princess.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:52:09] Markle.

Ruben Paul: [00:52:10] Meghan Markle.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:52:10] Yeah. Meghan Markle.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:52:11] Yeah, yeah. I mean, why not?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:52:14] I mean, they have.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:52:15] Maybe she's living in Montecito right now with Them.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:52:17] Right. And here's the reason why. It's like the Tupac thing. Even though we joke, it's harder for him to have done this. He was going to come up. He didn't have that kind of money where I mean, he had money. But you literally never have to work again. Work again?

Ruben Paul: [00:52:31] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:52:31] And you're fine. He didn't have that. I don't think he had that kind of money.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:52:34] But especially with The deal he made with Death Row.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:52:36] But. But Princess Di probably did. Yeah, she and Steve Jobs did.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:52:39] And and I think the royal family would wouldn't mind her not being around. I mean, I think they were tired of her. Like she was more popular than Prince Charles. She was more popular than the queen. Right. Right. Yeah. And everyone loved her. So and she just was like, Fuck this. I'm out of here.

Ruben Paul: [00:52:53] There's just too many witnesses with Diana.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:52:55] Yeah. But what would you miss if you faked? Because I can't imagine not talking to my mom again unless she was in on it.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:53:03] Yeah, she could be in on it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:53:04] Yeah, I could do it if my mom is in on it and if I could get, you know, if then all my friends. Because you can't, you can you can only take like two or three people with you. You can't, like, fake your own death and everyone knows you're alive, you know?

Ruben Paul: [00:53:19] Yeah. Well, we have a tight circle with that.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:53:21] But you can be Asian because we all look alike.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:53:23] That's true.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:53:24] That's how it works, right? All Asian people look like. No. I'm just kidding.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:53:27] I mean, I'm saying that's true. That that's what people thing.

Ruben Paul: [00:53:31] Me and Dwayne no better. We've been to the Asian countries.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:53:33] Listen I once had an exercise in college where they gave for groups was when I was in RA. They gave us each a lemon. A lemon, maybe an orange. I think it was a lemon. It was like study the lemon. We had the lemon for like 5 minutes.  Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:53:47] That's a lot of studying.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:53:48] Yeah. I know. But then give the lemon back and then, like, can you pick out your lemon? And we all could. So the point is, like, even a lemon, you can't tell. But after 5 minutes with a lemon, you knew this was the lemon I had 5 minutes ago.

Ruben Paul: [00:54:02] Yeah

Dwayne Perkins: [00:54:03] it was kind of powerful, you know what I mean? In terms of if you think people all look the same.

Ruben Paul: [00:54:06] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:54:07] You don't know them.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:54:07] Yeah, well, you're just not. You're not familiar. You haven't been around people.

Ruben Paul: [00:54:10] I have exercise that I do on stage when there's Asians in the audiences. I know my Asians.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:54:16] Right. Right.

Ruben Paul: [00:54:18] How racist does that sound like I but that but the funny thing about it they appreciate it because, you know, after you travel to Korea and you travel to China and you travel to the Philippines and you travel, they don't you don't look alike to me anymore. Like, I knew you were Japanese the moment I walked. In, you know?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:54:34] Right. Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:54:35] Well, an Asian itself is a European word. I mean, like Asians don't call themselves Asian. They're Japanese or they're Chinese. Korean, right. I mean, that's like so it's a very interesting. 

Ruben Paul: [00:54:43] That's a great point.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:54:44] That's why it's really interesting to see like, like Asian Americans go to Asia and they're like, we're Asian American. They're like. What? Like, what does that mean? Right? No, you're Chinese. You're Japanese.

Ruben Paul: [00:54:53] Like, is this funny? Even in China, you know, they they draw a distinction between American Chinese and Chinese.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:55:01] Yeah,

Ruben Paul: [00:55:01] Because there's a big difference.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:55:02] Oh, yeah, they do. They all Asian Countries.

Ruben Paul: [00:55:04] Oh, really? Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:55:04] I got my favorite story from Japan is when I was a kid I would walk on the beach with like just like swimwear on wouldn't say a word and they would pick me out.

Ruben Paul: [00:55:14] They would know.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:55:15] They would know I'm American, just by the way I walked.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:55:17] That's crazy.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:55:18] It's like it's just a different gait. It's a different, like, attitude, like it's a much more American attitude. And I remember my mom always telling me, your Japanese, your Japanese, I go to Japan, I'm like, I'm fucking not Japanese. Like. Then I'm like, I'm not American, clearly, because everyone's calling me fucking Chinese or Jap or whatever.

Ruben Paul: [00:55:34] You know, it's funny because I. Say this in my act like there's nothing that makes me feel less Haitian than being around other Haitians.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:55:42] Interesting.

Ruben Paul: [00:55:43] It's like when you're around, you're like, Oh, I was born here. My Creole accent is different. There's all these things that when you're from a country, you know, you assimilate to you adapt to your environment. And it's a difference when you you weren't born there.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:56:01] Well, thank you, Ruben, for coming on with us. Please tell us where people can find you. 

Ruben Paul: [00:56:06] Pretty easy You can find me on Instagram. I am Reuben Paul. Same thing on Twitter, Facebook website. Reuben Paul dot com. That actually I need to update. But other than that, you can find me on all social media. I am Reuben.Paul,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:56:21] Dope dope.

Ruben Paul: [00:56:22] And then you can catch me performing at comedy clubs everywhere.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:56:26] And your Laugh Factory show that you do in Hollywood. 

Ruben Paul: [00:56:30] Yeah. Ruby Tuesday every Tuesday night at the Hollywood Laugh Factory, The 730 Show. And then. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:56:36] Dope show.

Ruben Paul: [00:56:36] Yeah, it's a really fun show. I get to have some of the best comics. Dwayne has done it a few times and you can catch me on tour with George Lopez currently.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:56:43] Great. And I did want to mention that this episode is written by my intern Isabel Liang. She's young and didn't know a lot about Tupac, so it was interesting to see what she discovered. So thank you, Isabel, if you're listening.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:56:53] And thank you all so much for listening. There are 2 million podcasts out there. It's crazy and we're honored you've chosen ours to listen to. Please check out our website unofficial official story dot com for our show notes or to hear our past episodes.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:57:07] And be sure to come back next month to find out the answer to the question Why is Bigfoot kidnapping hikers?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:57:13] Because they're hiking.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:57:15] Because he can. Because he can. By the way we should mention, Jennifer didn't couldn't join us today. Yes, she had an emergency, but she will be with us next week. Next month.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:57:24] Yes. So sorry you had to hear so much of our voices. Yes. She's she has a melodic voice, but she'll be back with us. So thank you. Thank you, guys.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:57:31] Thank you, Reuben.

Ruben Paul: [00:57:32] All right. Thanks for having me, man. This was fun. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:57:34] Bye everybody.