S5E1 Babe Ruth is black with Josh Edelman

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:00] Which athlete do you think is actually Asian?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:02] I like that, that's pretty cool.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:04] Yeah. What do you think, Dwayne?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:05] Well, I mean, um, usually that'd be the, uh, team manager. I'm just teasing. I'm teasing. Even though, I mean, this guy passed away, but in a way, you could say Koji almost had, like,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:16] Koji,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:17] Not Koji. Excuse me. Kobe. Kobe. Kobe.

Cat Alvarado: [00:00:19] I was gonna say Kobe.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:20] I was gonna say Kobe too.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:21] Is that right?

Josh Edelman: [00:00:22] Everyone wants to believe Kobe.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:25] Well, he had a it was like he was his own dragon mom. Kind of a tiger mom. Excuse me. So, like, that's why.

Cat Alvarado: [00:00:31] So he had, like, two spirits inside of him. Like one was a tiger mom, and then one was him.

Josh Edelman: [00:00:35] But there are a lot of great Asian athletes.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:38] Oh, certainly.

Josh Edelman: [00:00:38] Like, definitively, the greatest baseball player in the world right now is an Asian athlete.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:43] Absolutely.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:43] Michael Chang. 

Cat Alvarado: [00:00:44] Or is he black?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:45] Oh, right. Right, right.

Josh Edelman: [00:00:48] Why? Why did I just blank on his name? Who am I thinking of?

Cat Alvarado: [00:00:51] Shohei Ohtani.

Josh Edelman: [00:00:52] Yeah. Yeah, yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:53] Plus, Kobe is Kobe beef.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:55] Yeah. He was named after.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:56] Yeah, actually. Maybe Japanese.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:58] A Japanese name.

Josh Edelman: [00:00:59] There's definitely a lot of, like, Japanese lore with Kobe.

Cat Alvarado: [00:01:02] I thought he was Italian too, though.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:04] No, his dad played in Italy.

Cat Alvarado: [00:01:05] Okay,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:06] So he speaks in Italian. Yeah, he's not a Japanese, but that's one of the reasons why he didn't get along with the other players was that there was kind of a difference, because he didn't grow up in the hood. He didn't have the same experiences. That's why Phil Jackson gave him this book called White Boy Shuffle. Have you guys ever heard of that book? It's this amazing book. It's like one of the best books, and Kobe just didn't want to read it because Kobe was being an asshole. But it would be perfect because the book was about this guy, this African-American kid who was like this basketball prodigy, but he was also incredibly smart, like Einstein smart. And so he went to this black school, and everyone thought he was a nerd, and they made fun of him. So then his mom was like, fuck this, let's go to, like, a private school. So he goes to a private school and everyone there thinks he's only a basketball player. They think he's a stupid basketball player. Right. And so everywhere he goes, he just felt totally not clicking with the group. And so like that was Kobe because Kobe was too smart to kind of like for the other basketball players. And he's kind of like doesn't get along. And so it was like, Kobe should have read it because it would have totally changed his life. By Paul Beatty, by the way.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:02:03] Wait, he didn't read it?

Josh Edelman: [00:02:04] No, I like I like how his white coach was like, you're not black enough, Kobe. It also, it also kind of reminds me I was working when I lived in New York. I worked for like, this Orthodox Jewish, like this is like during college I worked for, like, this Orthodox Jewish catering service in Brooklyn where, like, everyone working there was such an idiot that, like, I was the guy that, like, the person in charge relied on the most because I was like the most responsible person in the catering thing. And I was living with, like, this super like gay hot actor guy that, uh, worked. And he's like, oh, you do catering. Well, let me get you in with our catering company. And he got me in for like one of these high paying catering jobs. And on the first job, the guy in charge pulled me aside. He goes, can I talk to you for a second? And he goes, you might be the worst caterer I have ever seen in my entire life. Get out! And it's like in the Orthodox Jewish Brooklyn catering thing. I was Mr. Responsibility.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:03] Wow.

Josh Edelman: [00:03:04] And not like this high end, like New York Upper West Side catering place. I was the worst caterer he has ever seen.

Cat Alvarado: [00:03:13] Oh, no.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:15] Wow. It's it's all. Yeah. Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:03:18] So for Phil Jackson, it was more about like. Or in this book was more about a guy who feels out of place and how he used, like, people's perceptions of him to, to like, say something about who he really was and that nobody really understood because everyone saw something. And so, like, I think Phil was just saying, hey, it's okay. I know, like, you don't really get along with other players. You don't really do this, you don't really do that. Like, this is a way for him to kind of start to mentally think like to.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:43] That probably made him a better basketball player because he was just like, I'm just gonna be really good at this thing.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:03:47] But he also pissed off all his teammates and all his teammates hated him.

Josh Edelman: [00:03:50] It's like me in the comedy scene. Everyone hates me. But I'm the best. You gotta do, you know? Come for the crown, baby. Come for the crown.

Cat Alvarado: [00:04:07] Welcome to the unofficial official Story podcast. This is episode one of season five. What? Join us as we dive into the quirky, mysterious and bizarre. From unsolved mysteries to peculiar pop culture phenomena, we uncover hidden stories and explore alternate realities. My name is Cat Kobe Bryant Alvarado.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:33] Hi, I'm Dwayne fish hunter. Uh, his first name is Cat. Actually was a baseball player called catfish Hunter. It's one of my favorite names. Um, yeah, I'm Dwayne fish hunter today.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:04:43] And I'm Koji Gaylord Perry. Because that's.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:45] Very nice. Very nice.

Josh Edelman: [00:04:46] I really enjoyed how Cat was reading off the script, and when she got to her name, seemed like she couldn't read her name. That was. That was. Personally, I'm. I'm Josh Comment on everything Edelman.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:03] Got a theory or a mystery you want us to explore? Send it our way. And we might feature it in an upcoming episode.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:05:09] Being that it's April, we're celebrating the opening of the Dodgers back to back world championship season. Championship season. I'm just saying, you guys aren't.

Josh Edelman: [00:05:16] Oh, we're we're starting off the Dodgers back to back.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:19] Right? Right.

Josh Edelman: [00:05:20] Honestly, probably. Even as a Yankee fan that that hates you guys for like ten different reasons right now.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:25] It's probably this year.

Josh Edelman: [00:05:26] Yeah, probably.

Cat Alvarado: [00:05:27] And my stepdad rewatches Yankee fans crying about the Dodgers winning over and over.

Josh Edelman: [00:05:32] I like the Dodgers. And I was rooting for the Dodgers to play the Yankees in the World Series. But game one fell on the night of like my heart is to produce most expensive like need people to show up comedy show and just ruined it. And I was like so livid because the show normally sells out and this is like it was my Halloween show, which is like my favorite show I produce all year, and like last year it had like 120 people at it. This year I have like 11 tourists that didn't speak good English. And it was the worst. And I was like, I cursed the dog. And then on top of it all, Freeman hits that that home run that wins the game at the very end. So the Yankees couldn't even win. It was the worst night ever.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:14] That was it was almost done after that. Like after that.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:06:17] No, it was done after that.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:18] Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:06:18] It was done that.

Josh Edelman: [00:06:19] We needed that game.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:20] Yeah, absolutely.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:06:21] I mean, the Major League Baseball season with a very important question was Babe Ruth actually black?

Cat Alvarado: [00:06:26] He is Josh Edelman. He's also a comedian, a filmmaker and a magician. What else do you do, buddy?

Josh Edelman: [00:06:32] Um. Well, that that that that covered it.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:06:36] Well, you're a podcaster too, right?

Josh Edelman: [00:06:37] I, I should I'm planning to restart my podcast.

Cat Alvarado: [00:06:41] But you also are a filmmaker who made a documentary.

Josh Edelman: [00:06:44] I made a documentary called Mentally Al, which The New York Times picked as the best comedy documentary of 2021.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:06:52] What was it about?

Josh Edelman: [00:06:53] Uh, it's about this comedian named Al Lubel, who's a.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:56] I know Al Lubel.

Josh Edelman: [00:06:56] You know Al.

Cat Alvarado: [00:06:57] Yeah.

Josh Edelman: [00:06:57] Genius, right?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:58] Yeah, yeah.

Josh Edelman: [00:06:58] He's like, the funniest person in the world.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:07:00] We should get him on the show.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:01] And he's a New Yorker.

Josh Edelman: [00:07:03] Kind of just like I saw him when I was young. And I was like, how is this guy not the most famous comedian in the world? And then I got to know him, and I was like, oh, this is why. And made a movie about it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:14] That's great. I didn't know that. He's got one of these names that people like saying, you know what I mean?

Josh Edelman: [00:07:18] Well, he does.

Cat Alvarado: [00:07:19] He likes saying.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:20] Yes.

Josh Edelman: [00:07:20] One of the brilliant things about Al is Al's able to do. Al currently does a show. Al Lubell talks about his name for an hour and 25 minutes and about something else for five minutes. And when he gets to the five minutes about something else, he goes, you know what? I just kind of want to talk about my name more. So, uh, how brilliant do you have to be as a comedian to be able to do an hour and a half of material on just your name? And it's not only an hour and a half of material on just his name. It's a brilliant, non-stop, hilarious hour and a half. It's like you want him to stop, but you're also kind of like it is good. It doesn't stop being good. Why do I want him to stop? And that's kind of like the conundrum of him.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:03] Nice, nice. I gotta check that out.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:08:05] When did you know you wanted to be a comedian?

Josh Edelman: [00:08:06] I mean, it it's weird. It almost feels for me. It almost feels like both being a comedian and being a filmmaker were things I just always was. I don't know how to, like, put it. But as a kid, it's just like I am these things. They were my pronouns. Comedian slash nice. Um. Like, it's like it's like a, it is like a greater calling that just it felt like it's the only they're the only options. So I don't, I don't even know when was the moment I thought, I want to be this. It just kind of always felt like I was.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:08:39] And did you play baseball?

Josh Edelman: [00:08:40] Very little. I was much more of a basketball and tennis player. But a big baseball fan.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:08:44] Who's your favorite player?

Josh Edelman: [00:08:45] Favorite player? Uh, baseball. Derek Jeter.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:08:47] Oh my goodness.

Josh Edelman: [00:08:48] I'm a Yankees fan.

Cat Alvarado: [00:08:49] So cliche.

Josh Edelman: [00:08:50] That was the coolest guy on my favorite team growing up.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:53] That makes sense.

Josh Edelman: [00:08:54] You're gonna love.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:55] Yeah, that makes sense. I like Jeter, but he's not my favorite Yankee ever.

Cat Alvarado: [00:08:58] Who's like me saying my favorite Lakers, Kobe Bryant.

Josh Edelman: [00:09:00] Oh, that's right, that's right. What most what most people in LA, you ask them who their favorite basketball player is. They're gonna say Kobe Bryant.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:07] Kobe Bryant's not my favorite basketball player.

Josh Edelman: [00:09:09] Are you a Laker fan?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:10] I'm a I'm a season ticket for like 20 years.

Josh Edelman: [00:09:11] Okay.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:12] Yeah. But it's mostly because he's just not a fun person to watch. I watched so many games.

Cat Alvarado: [00:09:15] He's too good. He's too good.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:17] No. What you love about him as a person, is that like that killer? That I don't care how you're gonna do it. If he misses 70 shots one game, he's gonna shoot 200 the next game. But that's also what you hate about him is, like, sometimes you're just like Kobe. Trust your teammates. Pass the fucking ball.

Josh Edelman: [00:09:30] So you like LeBron?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:31] Yeah, I like LeBron.

Josh Edelman: [00:09:31] I love LeBron LeBron LeBron's my. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:33] You know. And the one thing that I will say about Kobe that's interesting is that if you watch him in a fight like when he's about to get in a fight on the court, all his teammates are walking back to the bench. And like somebody like, like Ron Artest or Metta World Peace or whatever. Like when he got in the fight, every single player went in the stands with him. They loved that.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:09:48] Even the hot dog vendor.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:49] Yeah.

Cat Alvarado: [00:09:50] Whereas, you know, I mean, like literally. I would watch Kobe, like, get in a fight with like, Allan Houston or something. And like, everyone's just walking back and.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:09:57] Right, right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:57] They don't even they don't even care. Like the best player on their team was like, they don't give a shit about it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:01] But you know, that's and that's I know a little off topic. That's almost like within the tragedy of him dying. That is like the second tragedy because. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:11] He changed.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:11] It felt like he was he was ready for his act two in life, where he was a kinder, nicer person.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:17] The grandpa of basketball. Like he totally changed his personality.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:20] He was sharing what he knew with people and stuff like that, you know?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:23] Yeah. Who's your favorite Yankee?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:24] Probably Don Mattingly. Uh, and a close second Willie Randolph. \Yeah. Willie Randolph back in the day.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:30] Who's your favorite baseball player Cat?

Cat Alvarado: [00:10:32] I don't have one. You guys. I barely ever watch baseball.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:35] I'm sorry.

Cat Alvarado: [00:10:36] Ever. So I'm really unqualified to be on this podcast. But that's why I suggested Josh, because I felt like, you know what? Josh has double the amount of baseball fandom. He'll carry this for me.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:46] Babe Ruth, born George Herman Ruth Jr on February 6th, 1895, in Baltimore, Maryland, is one of the most iconic figures in American sports history.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:55] Known as the Bambino and the Sultan of Swat. Babe's career in Major League Baseball spanned 22 seasons, from 1914 to 1935. He began as a star left handed pitcher for the Boston Red Sox, but achieved legendary status as a slugging outfielder for the New York Yankees.

Cat Alvarado: [00:11:11] Babe's prodigious home run hitting ability revolutionized the game, helping to usher in the live ball era and boosting baseball's popularity. His larger than life personality and rags to riches story made him a beloved figure, and he was one of the first five inductees to the Baseball Hall of Fame in 1936.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:31] So I have a random Babe Ruth fact he swung a 40 ounce bat. That's crazy.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:35] Is that really heavy?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:36] That's really. That's like a piece of wood. Like nowadays, like players of major leaguers are probably, you know, 34.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:44] What's up with this new bat?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:45] That torpedo bat.

Josh Edelman: [00:11:46] Torpedo.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:47] Yeah. Is that fair?

Josh Edelman: [00:11:49] Hitting like that, it's turned Aaron Judge into Barry Bonds.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:52] Is this are they going to eliminate that?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:54] No. It's legal. So what they what it's actually what's interesting about it is you could buy it online. You could buy it now. But the issue is that what the Yankees did, which makes sense, is they looked at the analytics and they said, okay, this guy hits the ball right here on a bat every like, you know, out of 10,000 bats, he usually hits it right here. And so then they built that to be the biggest part of the bat. So the problem with if you go buy the bat on the street is that it's not meant for you.

Josh Edelman: [00:12:16] Yeah. You don't necessarily hit the ball on that part of the bat.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:20] Yeah. But if you do, then the ball's gonna go. Because the thing about wood so random inside baseball, if you use a wood bat, the sweet spot is like maybe two inches. If you when you use like a aluminum bat, like a little league bat or something, it's the whole bat. It's because it's aluminum. So you could hit pretty much anywhere and it's gonna go. So that's why I like when you get to like 13 or 14, when you start using like bats that are like more like those kinds of bats, you could see the real hitters because like as a ten year old, if you're fat and you just touch the ball, the ball goes far. But as you get older, you start getting like where it's like an inch or two and all of a sudden. So like the torpedo bats, even more so it's like it's just where you hit the ball.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:12:57] Right, right. Right, right.

Josh Edelman: [00:12:58] Like the sweet spot. But it's more consolidated. But if you hit it on the sweet spot.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:01] It's gonna go far.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:02] Right, right. But baseball, hitting a baseball is still the hardest thing to do.

Josh Edelman: [00:13:06] I think they say it's the hardest.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:07] Yeah, it's the hardest thing to do. And also the thing. My thing about Babe Ruth, too, is that he doesn't. He didn't look superly athletic. His running. I mean, I know he was great. And eye hand coordination means a lot goes for a lot. But. 

Josh Edelman: [00:13:19] I do think it's interesting. I feel like when I look back at pictures of Babe Ruth, like we call him fat and stuff, we look at him and he's not really as fat as, like we call it. He's like probably in shape. I feel like everyone looks kind of fat in baseball clothes. That's like. I'll tell you something. So. So you know Paul O'Neill? Uh, I remember I was at, like, on vacation, and Paul O'Neill was at the hotel. I was at and we were at the pool. And this is like, ten years after Paul O'Neill was retired, and he had his shirt off at the pool and he was the biggest, strongest person I have ever seen in my life. And I am like, this is ten years after he was no longer good enough to play baseball.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:02] Right? Right right.

Josh Edelman: [00:14:03] Like the physical shape that these guys are in that are playing. People underestimate what.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:09] The average Major league Baseball player. Six two. 205. So, like, as a as a parent of a baseball player, like I have a chart that I show parents what a D1 or D2, D3 baseball player, what a major league baseball player looks like. So, for example, my son's a catcher. Average height for a major league catcher is 5'11, 5'10. Do you want catchers or 5'10? But it's 180 to 220. So it's like a big like running back.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:31] When Jordan played baseball, he had to like, change his body.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:34] Yeah. Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:35] You put on some weight and. Yeah, you need that.

Josh Edelman: [00:14:39] Is your kid. Those those sizes.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:41] He's gonna be. I mean, if he had to be six two, he wouldn't work. But as a five, ten, five, 11, that's why he's a catcher.

Josh Edelman: [00:14:46] A big hitter.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:46] Yeah, he's a he's a big hitter. He's he's he's more known for his catching than his hitting, but he's an elite hitter as well.

Cat Alvarado: [00:14:53] Oh no though. Whatever you say about Babe Ruth, he was kind of pudgy looking at the pictures. I'm like, nah, this is not an in-shape man. No.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:03] Well, also, back then there was a different perception of how to, you know, like baseball. Like, for example, you might have to have another job.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:08] The thing, too, is he may have been so much better than everyone else that it may have been a blessing if he wasn't super duper in shape. Because he might have hit 70 home runs.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:17] That's like LuKa. Yeah, like Luka or like Jokic. Like you look at those guys.

Josh Edelman: [00:15:20] I think he looks pretty. Pretty jacked and like. Like regular.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:24] That's a lean. That's a very lean, mean.

Josh Edelman: [00:15:28] Like the very end of his career.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:29] But like, but like Jokic and Doncic they're not like you would never say they're like Karl Malone or something in physical body type. Like the Europeans. European basketball has a different thing. Like for example I know Jokic is always like I don't practice basketball during the off season. He wants to like have fun and and Doncic wants to smoke and drink.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:48] And it's a little bit like Steph Curry in that sports hasn't except for baseball. Right. They don't know how to sort of quantify eye hand coordination. So you get these guys who don't seem as athletic as everyone else, but their brains and their hands are far superior than everyone else. And how. 

Josh Edelman: [00:16:04] They like to live that way, too.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:06] Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

Josh Edelman: [00:16:07] Shaq's in better shape now than he was when he was on the Suns.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:16:12] But actually, in baseball, the bigger you are, the farther the ball goes and the faster the ball pitches. So if you're a fat pitcher, the ball, you'll have more velocity. The pitches are firmer. If you're a fat hitter, the balls will go further. So there is like like it's just math, physics. It's just mass. If you have if you're a bigger human being, that's why like you have these kids in like ten U. Baseball who are like my height and they're just smacking the ball. You're like, well dude, yeah. You're like, you're like 5'10 playing on like a little person's field. Of course you're going to be hitting the ball.

Josh Edelman: [00:16:39] It is so funny, you know, because like sports is is broken down by weight classes. And I'll never forget in high school, like my best friend joined the wrestling team, but he was a little out of shape when he joined and he joined to get in shape. But the first wrestling meet, he didn't have time to get in shape by then. So I go and I'm like watching everyone wrestling and it's like all these little guys matching up. And then I see this one guy who's just like jacked on the other team and he's not gone, and my friend's not gone. And finally they call my friend up. And because he's overweight, he's paired up with the guy who's pure muscle, and the guy just destroyed him instantly. And it was so funny to watch because again, you're just mashed up with your weight class, not your skill class.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:17:22] Right? Right, right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:17:23] So there have been persistent rumors about Babe's race, specifically that he was black or mixed. Some of the reasons why people thought this was that he had relationships with African-American women and was friendly toward black players, fans, and black celebrities. And he supported integration in 1947.

Josh Edelman: [00:17:38] This guy's not racist. He must be black. It's the only explanation for his lack of overt racism.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:17:47] Well, back then that. That might be true, though. You either hate more or you like more maybe.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:17:53] Well, I won't say this to like in reading and researching a little bit for this because they called them the Bambino. I always thought, oh, he's like,

Cat Alvarado: [00:17:59] He's Italian,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:18:00] Italian. And there's like both his parents are German, and that's just something a person who's black would say. They would say, I'm the most white I can find.

Josh Edelman: [00:18:09] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:18:09] Like you look like that. And both your parents.

Josh Edelman: [00:18:12] Germans history of liking other races.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:18:15] No, I know, I know. 

Josh Edelman: [00:18:16] Storied history.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:18:17] Right. So to throw people off the scent, you would say German because Italian. You might be like, oh, that's you know, even, you know, I'm a French extraction or whatever, but German is like, listen, we don't even have to have this conversation. I'm German, keep it moving. You know what I mean?

Josh Edelman: [00:18:33] I do often think like it is often funny to me in baseball. How like, the sanctity of baseball is always so important. And they're like, we can't have steroids in baseball because it because like it, it ruins all the statistical accomplishments. But I'm like, you're talking about statistical accomplishments of people who are playing nonintegrated. Like, you're definitely skewed more by not playing against the greatest athletes of your time than steroids, than most people being on steroids.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:19:01] They've started they've allowed, like the Negro League stats in that.

Josh Edelman: [00:19:04] But those stats are skewed because he was like they weren't playing with the other again.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:19:07] Right? They weren't playing with the best white players.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:19:09] And the Other Thing is they weren't the stats weren't kept very well.

Cat Alvarado: [00:19:11] So somebody who like, doesn't like black people could have gone to like their record keeping house and been like, well, what if we just set fire to these games? I guess he's got way less home runs now.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:19:19] Oh, and the crazy thing is,

Josh Edelman: [00:19:20] I only trust the Jewish League stats.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:19:23] Right, right. Right, right. I can.

Josh Edelman: [00:19:27] Make that.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:19:29] And when Hank Aaron was about to break Babe Ruth's record, he got all his hate mail.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:19:34] Death threats.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:19:34] Yeah. Which is kind of crazy because it's like sports is this meritocracy thing. And to be like, if you break this record, we're going to kill you. And then on top of that, the guy that you're trying to save may have been black.

Cat Alvarado: [00:19:46] Well, I think there's one thing we know. It's that racist people are not very bright. Like.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:19:50] Right. Right, right.

Cat Alvarado: [00:19:51] That's a lot of brainpower to devote.

Josh Edelman: [00:19:53] Well, speaking of that, I know that this isn't this isn't race related. But interestingly, like one of my biggest one of the things I think is like the biggest terrible things that have happened recently is the legalized sports gambling across the country.

Cat Alvarado: [00:20:06] Oh my god.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:20:07] Like, I could not agree with you more. Like it's horrible.

Cat Alvarado: [00:20:09] Cancer on society.

Josh Edelman: [00:20:10] Let's just ruin lives left and right. But also I'm watching the the tournament. Um, the other day and their commercial came on. They're like, just because you like to sports gamble doesn't mean you should harass and threaten college athletes. Like college athletes are getting threatened now.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:20:27] Because Like, you messed up my parlay. Yeah.

Josh Edelman: [00:20:30] Yeah, exactly. Like it's Horrible. It's it's horrible. Beyond the things I already thought were horrible about it. Anyway, this message was brought to you by DraftKings. Draftkings? Ruin your family's life.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:20:44] Ruth's adopted daughter, said this daddy would have had blacks on his team. She cited this as one of the reasons why her father was never given a chance to become a manager.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:20:53] And they said they never let him own a team either, but it seems like they could have just said, hey, babe, don't do this. But, uh, once you're there, they can't stop you. So Babe was taunted for his wide nose and full lips. Even some of Babe's contemporaries thought he was black. Ty Cobb was supposed to share a cabin with Babe, but Ty refused, saying, I've never bedded down with an N-word and I'm not going to start now. And a Giants player called him the N word during a game, which made Ruth come after him after the game. And interestingly enough, so Babe Ruth, you know, went to the guy's locker to confront him, you know, say what you want about me, but don't bring up the personal stuff. He didn't say, I'm not black. What the hell are you talking about? He said, don't bring up the personal stuff. That's kind of.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:21:38] That's crazy.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:21:39] It's kind of interesting, right?

Cat Alvarado: [00:21:40] Yeah. I'm looking at these pictures, and I like. I go through them and someone like this is definitely not a black guy. This is just a white guy. And then I keep going and then I'm like, nope, this is definitely a black man.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:21:52] It depends on the picture. Yeah.

Cat Alvarado: [00:21:54] It's like every fifth picture you're like, no, I see it.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:21:56] But but in America, race is like the original sin, right? So like, one drop of blood has always been black. Like, if you have one drop of blood. So, like, even if, even if he's like 99% white or whatever, German and 1% black, then he's black.

Cat Alvarado: [00:22:11] And no, I think he's for sure mixed to some degree.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:14] And by the way, I. I can I can see it either way. Yeah.

Cat Alvarado: [00:22:19] That is not a white guy.

Josh Edelman: [00:22:20] Yeah. That's just a that's just lighting.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:22] Okay. Well one thing. Maybe. 

Cat Alvarado: [00:22:23] You're like he's just standing in the shadows. Cat.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:26] Well, I Guess two things really quick. One. Did you know the first Japanese baseball broke the color line before Major League Baseball? I don't know if we talked about this. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:22:33] In basketball. Wat misaka.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:34] No baseball too.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:22:36] Know because the first black person was in 1900s or 1800s. There was there was black. Black.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:40] Well, yeah. And there was a black guy named Moses Fleetwood, who played a little bit. And then.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:22:45] And then cap. Uh, cap Alston said he doesn't want him to play a black person.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:50] But there was, um, but ten years before Jackie Robinson, uh, Yokohama Bay City all stars had a black dude.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:22:55] Oh, really? Okay.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:56] They scrimmaged against the Negro Leagues and one guy they, like, took a liking to, and he went and played. So The, like the second wave of breaking it was was them also just another quick thing when Jesse Owens won the Olympics with Hitler in the audience.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:13] Who's that? Wait, wait. Who's Hitler?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:23:14] Uh.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:15] Sorry.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:23:16] The guy who came in second, right? Who no one talks about. Also an American named Mack Robinson. Jackie Robinson's brother.

Cat Alvarado: [00:23:23] What?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:23:24] Yeah. So Mack ran. So Jackie could run, hit and and field.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:30] Yes. I have a Great Jackie Robinson story. So when I. One of my docents, I used to work at the Japanese American National Museum and one of my docents was a, uh, track runner at PCC, Pasadena City College. And he said that one day he was, you know, they were running track and they were doing practice, and then they're watching the football team. And Jackie was on the football team and Jackie was like, what are you guys doing? Oh we're racing. He's like, can I race? So he takes off his helmet, gets on the thing, and he just burns everybody by like like three fourths of the thing. Because Jackie was just an elite athlete who just burned. They were like. He was like, I thought I was a fast runner until I met Jackie Robinson. I was like, I am not a fast runner. Like.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:24:05] It's good to get that information.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:24:06] Yes, it's definitely. Good. Okay. Go ahead.

Cat Alvarado: [00:24:09] Okay. So what if babe was black? Would his career have been any different? Like we do know how it would have gone. He would have been Josh Gibson, a Hall of Fame catcher. One of the greatest hitters of all time. Maybe the greatest. In fact, he's MLB's all time leader in batting average, slugging percentage and Ops, but nowhere near as famous as Babe Ruth because he was African American playing in the Negro Leagues.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:24:33] Babe wasn't the only one who people thought might have been black, but because of his importance to America's pastime and American culture overall, if it were true, it would have been very important secret to keep. While doing research for this episode, I found out that some people suspected Ludwig van Beethoven was also black. I did not know that. Did you guys know that?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:24:50] I've heard that before. The pictures don't. But it's hard because.

Cat Alvarado: [00:24:53] There's no pictures.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:24:53] The pictures are paintings. Yeah, so. Well, it's time to put on our thinking caps. Was Babe Ruth actually black? When we return, we'll settle this once and for all and figure out what really maybe happened.

Cat Alvarado: [00:25:08] Now that we've reviewed the evidence, let's give our theory.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:25:11] Who wants to go first. You wanna go first?

Cat Alvarado: [00:25:12] I think Babe Ruth was Asian.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:25:18] I was gonna say that, actually. But then I was like, well, I can't because.

Josh Edelman: [00:25:21] They're very Good At baseball,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:23] Right? Right. Exactly.

Cat Alvarado: [00:25:24] Yep. There you go. I think he's Shohei Ohtani's great great great grandfather.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:28] I don't I don't hate that. I don't hate that at all.

Cat Alvarado: [00:25:30] That is my only evidence.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:31] Here's what I would say. I think that, um, he's melanated right. So I.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:25:37] What does that word mean? Just because. Melon.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:39] Yeah. Melon. Yeah, yeah.

Cat Alvarado: [00:25:40] A little more dark.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:41] And I don't know, maybe that's not a word, but it's the thing people say. So I don't think he was black. I think I want to go with. He was Native American.

Cat Alvarado: [00:25:48] Ooh.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:49] Okay. Which is, which is so great because that means America's pastime. The best person ever at it was actual, true, original American.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:25:59] Yeah.

Cat Alvarado: [00:26:00] Can I just say, I think that's actually more plausible than that. He's African American because. Yeah. Like, you look at his features and it doesn't quite it's not quite, it's not quite that. But then you're like, what is it I can't play that actually checks out I think.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:26:16] Yeah. And that would have been maybe. Okay. But they just said, let's just do the German thing and forget it. And that's why he was cool with black people because he still he understood, you know, it was kind of like.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:26:25] Person of color.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:26:25] Person of color kind of thing.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:26:26] Yeah, yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:26:27] Well, actually, to tie those two together, people, some people think that the Native Americans, the indigenous people came on a land bridge.

Cat Alvarado: [00:26:33] So technically, Dwayne and I have the same thing theory.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:26:36] But but let me just say this because because Native Americans and the And indigenous nations. People don't like that theory as a whole. Yeah, they don't want to be known as Asian because there are like Clovis like groups that preceded the land bridge that were here before. So, like, to be clear, but if you look at like, like folks in like Alaska or like, They do look very well.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:26:56] Alaska is right there, you know.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:26:57] Yeah, exactly. There's like a land bridge. But anyway, um.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:26:59] Well. There's another theory. Some people think black people were already here.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:27:03] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:03] And just enslaved. And they just said they brought them on a boat. But that would be, you know, how many people would have to be in on that? That's so crazy to me.

Josh Edelman: [00:27:09] Some people think the Earth is flat, right?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:27:11] It is flat, right?

Josh Edelman: [00:27:14] Some people know the Earth.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:27:18] So I'm gonna I was gonna say that I thought he was actually a part black. This is not exciting. It's not a fun theory. I was going to say Asian. I actually wrote Asian.

Cat Alvarado: [00:27:25] I beat you to the punch.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:27:26] Yeah, you beat Me to the punch.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:27:27] But the reason I think so is his contemporaries were like calling him the n word and like, that's like such a specific thing to call somebody who, if you didn't think that they were actually black.

Cat Alvarado: [00:27:37] Yeah.

Josh Edelman: [00:27:38] But like, I can't tell you how many people in my life called me gay growing up. It doesn't. Make me any more gay.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:47] Yeah, well, like. Like the guy who created Napster, they called him Napster because he was a Jewish guy with curly hair. Um, I think that. Sean.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:27:54] Is that real?

Josh Edelman: [00:27:55] Yeah. Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:55] That's why.

Josh Edelman: [00:27:56] That guy That Justin Timberlake played.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:27:58] That site was called. Napster.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:27:59] Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, I didn't that.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:00] That was his nickname.

Josh Edelman: [00:28:01] But I feel like at that time, you know, how, like, we don't like, it's not cool to call people gay anymore as, like, an insult. Maybe that was just back then. The insult that people used to like that.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:14] So you're saying they didn't think he was black, but he had.

Josh Edelman: [00:28:16] But like. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:16] Because of the features that they played with it a bit yeah, but.

Josh Edelman: [00:28:19] Gay wasn't a thing. People were naming their kids Gaylord.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:22] Right.

Josh Edelman: [00:28:22] Right back at the time. Like, it's like a cool name to have.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:25] Right, right. But then.

Josh Edelman: [00:28:26] So. So the n word was was.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:29] But then Ty Cobb took it a little far when he wouldn't even room with him.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:28:32] Yeah, that's what I mean. It's just it's a little bit.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:28:34] Maybe Ty Cobb was really gay, and he didn't want to have to face face that issue.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:28:39] Maybe he liked black men, right? And so. He was projecting.

Josh Edelman: [00:28:42] My and my sort of view. To me, it's such a funny type of racism to say Babe Ruth is black because it's kind of like the it's kind of like the stereotype of, like, black guys have big dicks, or Asians are good at math, or Jews are good with money. It's like the compliment racism,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:03] Right?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:03] It's like, this. Guy's so good at sports. No way. He's white. Like like like, where does the real Babe Ruth's black come from? The fact that he dominated baseball in his day there. Like, no way a white guy could have done this. He must. He must have been. He must have been black. It's so. It is like the it is to me. Like that interesting type of like like I call it like compliment racism.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:29:29] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:30] I like that. That's a good phrase I like you. Have you coined that I like I'm going to use that. Yeah. Compliment racism.

Josh Edelman: [00:29:35] Compliment racism.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:37] Yes.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:29:38] Is that your theory?

Josh Edelman: [00:29:39] That's my theory.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:29:39] That's going to be your theory. Okay.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:40] So that he. Your theory.

Josh Edelman: [00:29:42] I think he's white. But I think.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:44] It's.

Josh Edelman: [00:29:44] Like. But I think it's actually a form of like.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:46] Right. Right.

Josh Edelman: [00:29:47] I think it's like the Jews are good at good with money version of like, well, this guy was the best baseball player, so he had. So he must have been black.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:29:54] Because he's an athlete.

Cat Alvarado: [00:29:55] He kind of looks like Nathan Lane. And Nathan Lane isn't black so.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:29:59] Right. That's true. That's true. What's interesting is that you can get that in all shapes and sizes. Like I'll get people just because of my nose, have like a little bit of a bridge. I've had I've gotten weird things, like I was at an audition once and a white lady came up to me completely white, and she was like, you know, I was adopted and we have the same nose, so we might be related. And that might have just been her wishful thinking. But like the Roman nose, like whenever people see something in you and they want to, like, separate you from your group, sometimes those compliments come in. And they come in different ways.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:30:32] Like even my son, like, so when he had his normal boys haircut, which is like just normal. Not long, not short. People would, like come up on him. Outfielders would come up, the infield, come up, and it was kind of like disrespectful because he could hit it over their head. And then the moment he grew out, his hair like a mullet, like a 1980s baseball player, all of a sudden people were like, oh my God. And then they back up. So it is like, there's a lot about, you know, about how a player looks and that there's like a prejudice. There's like a visual prejudice when you see a player. Right. Like you're always going to take like Aaron Judge six like 6'7 275 over 5'7 175 because you look and you're like, that guy looks like a fucking baseball player. Um, but that's what actually. So side note that's what analytics is supposed to do, right? Analytics is supposed to take away the prejudice of looking at the player like, because it shows you what the player actually does, not what they look like. But the problem that I tell kids when they talk to me about this is they say, hey, they have to first look at you and they have to judge you and decide that you're good enough before they look at the analytics. Very rarely are they looking at the analytics first and then looking at you, right? They're like, oh, that guy looks like.

Cat Alvarado: [00:31:37] So you're saying that the best way to put together my fantasy football team is not based off of who's hot?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:43] How about how about this? All baseball players now have to wear a mask like a hockey goalie. We don't know what's what, and then we just figure it out later. You know what I mean?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:52] Well, there's very few. There's very few black players in. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:31:54] Nowadays. Nowadays that's a misnomer because there are black players. They just speak Spanish, you know.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:31:59] No, no, but no African-Americans from America. There's like very like Mookie Betts. There's very few.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:32:04] Yeah. Baseball's kind of an expensive sport, isn't it? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:32:07] Like I make a joke that, like, when I look at my my son's team or my team, when you look at the bat rack, it's like, literally like $9,000 worth of bats. Just like, oh, shit. Like my son. We just bought my son a bat. It was $500.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:32:18] Yeah, it was crazy. I was just I just had to start like like because I remember coming up in, you know, in Brooklyn and, like, you know, basketball, you always had to make sure no one stole it. Right? And I would write my initials on it. And you could actually be so good at basketball, you could almost make it to the NBA. And like having never owned a basketball. That's how kind of like universal the sport is. Like, you could just go outside, play every day and someone will have a basketball from just from that. You can get good enough to, like, eventually play high school. You can't do that in any other sport. You couldn't just.

Cat Alvarado: [00:32:49] Soccer. There's people soccer in Brazil. And like a favela.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:32:53] Soccer is the same way. But. 

Josh Edelman: [00:32:54] I think also just a lot of African American athletes veer towards the NBA and the NFL over the over the major leagues.

Cat Alvarado: [00:33:03] Sometimes it's based off of representation and what you see having already happened.

Josh Edelman: [00:33:07] Some athletes said this and I think it's true if you can make it into the NBA, you play in the NBA that like that has the best athletes. Because if you have the ability to get to the NBA, you go there above all else.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:19] Although like Barry Larkin, there's a great story about Barry Larkin, shortstop, Cincinnati Reds. He was, uh.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:24] His son played basketball.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:25] Yeah. He got recruited as a running back for the University of Michigan. And they wanted to redshirt him. And he's like, I don't want to redshirt. And he's like, I'm just gonna play baseball this fall? And then he started playing bass and then became a Hall of Fame baseball player. That's crazy.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:38] And I think my thing is, if I was good enough to be a pro, definitely basketball would be my first choice. But then it'd have to be baseball because.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:45] You play forever.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:46] Also, who wants to get hit? Like, I can't imagine putting myself in a position where I'm getting hit.

Josh Edelman: [00:33:50] But like, it does feel like LeBron probably would have been the best athlete at whichever sport he.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:33:55] If he was like a soccer player. Could you imagine him as a soccer player?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:33:57] Yeah, he would. He would have been a tremendous fullback. Football though he wouldn't have been able to play until he's 40. I don't think just because. 

Josh Edelman: [00:34:03] Maybe not. I mean, but he probably would have been playing a position like tight end or.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:07] Right, right. Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:34:08] In Ohio, he was like one of the number one football players. And he chose basketball because he's also number one.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:13] Allen Iverson too was a great quarterback.

Josh Edelman: [00:34:16] Charlie Ward, the Heisman Trophy winner and then went to the NBA instead.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:19] Right, right. That was crazy. I mean, he had a good career, but I don't think he got drafted though.

Josh Edelman: [00:34:24] He didn't. He said he didn't get drafted first round. He was going to the NBA.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:26] Right, right.

Cat Alvarado: [00:34:27] It's time for us to pick the unofficial official story, one that will answer this question once and for all. So which theory do we want to go with today?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:35] So we have, uh, he's Asian, he's black, he's Native American, he's white. But people just can't believe it. I like he's he's so good.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:34:42] That's my favorite one. Josh's theory. So I vote for Josh's. 

Josh Edelman: [00:34:45] Compliment. Compliment? Racism.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:34:47] That's my favorite theory.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:48] I like I like him being a Native American.

Cat Alvarado: [00:34:50] I like him being Native American, too.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:34:51] Oh, so two one.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:34:53] You can you can tie it up. And then I don't know what I don't know what the procedure is. 

Josh Edelman: [00:34:57] But it's my theory.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:34:57] You could vote for your.

Josh Edelman: [00:34:58] Very, very.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:34:59] You could vote for your.

Josh Edelman: [00:35:01] Very much.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:35:02] There's no shame.

Josh Edelman: [00:35:02] Stick with my own theory.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:35:04] I voted for my own theory, so. But I can. I can switch mine because.

Josh Edelman: [00:35:10] You enjoy compliment racism?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:35:12] No, no. Just because it's sort of like.

Cat Alvarado: [00:35:14] What are we gonna do if it's a tie,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:35:16] Right, no. Also because, like, I don't want to be a person who can't believe a white guy could be that good. Like, obviously a white guy could be. We have Nikola Jokic, we have Larry Bird Tom Brady Luka. Yeah it goes on and on. And even you know we're talking skill but even Athleticism, right? We have examples of.

Cat Alvarado: [00:35:35] The assortment of Manning brothers.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:35:37] Supreme athleticism. So as much as I would love for him to have been black, but I really would I really wanted him to be Native American only because I think it's a nice tie in, but maybe he was just white or mainly white. And so we don't we don't really do the one drop thing as much as we used to. So.

Josh Edelman: [00:35:52] Oh, well, can I, can I, can I throw one last thought I had in that, that does, that does sort of support the Babe Ruth is black idea. It is I. I a lot of this probably does come from like how much it's like one black guy played golf and he just won for like 20 years straight. Two black women played tennis and they just won for like 20 years straight. It's like it'sm Like when you do finally enter someone into the prohibitively expensive white league from that is black, they do tend to dominate. But, uh, I still I still stick with my theory. I still think that if baseball had just been integrated back then, Babe Ruth wouldn't have been as impressive.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:36:34] No, I think he would have still been.

Josh Edelman: [00:36:35] He would have still been impressive, but it would have been more other. Impressive.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:36:38] Also, to be clear. Well, he changed the way baseball was played, right? Because before it was like a dead ball era. He really, like, changed.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:36:45] Yeah. When he hit 50, I think no one had hit more than 13.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:36:48] Yeah. There were teams that he hit more home runs like than, you know, like he personally hit more than more than some teams did. 

Cat Alvarado: [00:36:54] Guys. That is the official story. We'll take another break and we'll ask the question that you've always wanted to ask.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:02] Since we discussed Babe Ruth being possibly black, which we know he's not anymore. But let's switch it up a bit. Which African American athlete is actually white? I have I have my answer.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:13] Oh, what's that. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:14] Karl Malone.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:16] That's not bad.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:17] Because he wears cowboy boots. Cowboy hat. He, like, talks like a white.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:20] Does he have a trucking company?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:21] He has a trucking Company? He's like, he played in Utah for, like, 50 years.

Josh Edelman: [00:37:24] You think Karl Malone? You think Karl Malone was get outed?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:27] Yes.

Josh Edelman: [00:37:30] Because, like Karl Malone is like, probably what I imagine would happen if Jerry Jones uploaded his consciousness. Karl Malone's body.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:40] You know.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:37:40] And wait. He also played a like he didn't play an exciting form of basketball.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:37:44] I was just gonna say, what I like about that is him being maybe get out it. Maybe there's a white guy in it because he was so athletic. So if a white guy picked a black guy's body, like in the movie, get out. So I'm gonna just enter this guy, I'm gonna play an NBA. You see how, like, his his, um, signature dunk was just him putting one hand behind his head, which is really kind of a white thing to do. Like, like, it's kind of like a thing a white person would do thinking it was cool, like. Like he could do anything 360 spin and he just like like a, like kind of like the Fonz. That's how he dunked. He put his head, I'm aging. I'm dating myself, but aging myself. But yeah. So I love that.

Josh Edelman: [00:38:23] Also, Karl Malone, you know, this is a majority white thing to do. He's got like questionable like child molesters.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:33] He does.

Josh Edelman: [00:38:34] He does, he does.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:36] I think it's why he, like, doesn't get invited to all the events. 

Josh Edelman: [00:38:40] Anytime. Anytime. Like within the internet age today, anytime. Karl Malone's had a thing. The internet goes child molester. Child molester.

Cat Alvarado: [00:38:48] Oh, wow.

Josh Edelman: [00:38:49] So it is like. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:38:50] And the NBA has to kind of like ha ha ha. Ha. It's like walking on hot coals.

Cat Alvarado: [00:38:55] That's the reason they don't invite him to everything is that some things are too close to a school.

Josh Edelman: [00:39:02] I don't I don't know for sure like that. He got like a 13 year old pregnant, which is pretty child molester.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:08] Yeah. I don't know how old he was.

Josh Edelman: [00:39:09] The actual facts, because I'm saying what I think it is.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:12] Well, it's actually half your age. Minus seven is the rule now.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:15] Yeah, right. Right. That's funny. This is a tough one. Um, because a part of me wants to say Steph Curry. Because just because that would I think white people would be like, yes, you know what I mean? Um, and he probably has some, you know, of, uh, whiteness in him, but I'm going to go with, um, Chris Jackson, uh, his, uh, his that's not his name anymore, but it's Raoul Mall. Macmoud.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:39:43] Oh yeah. The Denver Nuggets.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:39:45] Because he is I think he never knew his father from what I remember. And I think he might his father was white but he never knew him. So my theory is the way he plays his father was Pistol Pete. That's what I. And then so and he's from Louisiana or Mississippi so not too far. So I think somehow his father was Pistol Pete and never really figured that out. But he got the super basketball skill and he was an amazing basketball player.

Josh Edelman: [00:40:10] Feels like it's an offensive thing for me to have an answer to. And I also feel bad about the person I'm gonna say, because they are good friends with a friend of mine. But, uh, I do feel like if anyone has the most white guy energy of a professional athlete that I can think of who's not white. It'd be Russell Wilson.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:40:32] Oh, yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:40:33] Oh, I could see that. He might be mixed race too, but yeah Russell Wilson. Yeah.

Josh Edelman: [00:40:37] Russell Wilson uh, Broncos. Let's ride like like like it's like.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:40:42] He says things that are. 

Josh Edelman: [00:40:44] Like they seem like like like it's just like where's. You're missing some swagger. Russ.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:40:48] Yeah, he Says Things that that, like your dad or your junior high school vice principal might say, like just in his interviews. Yeah, I like that a lot.

Josh Edelman: [00:40:56] My one of my good friends was his number one wide receiver in high school.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:00] Oh wow.

Josh Edelman: [00:41:01] That caught the championship winning touchdown.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:03] Oh wow.

Josh Edelman: [00:41:03] From Him. Nice nice. And then became a like a red shirt college athlete. 

Josh Edelman: [00:41:07] Right right. Yeah. But it's weird because he won a Super Bowl.

Josh Edelman: [00:41:10] He's great.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:11] He should have won two.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:41:12] But he also pisses off his teammates his teammates. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:14] Somehow. 

Josh Edelman: [00:41:14] His teammates hate him in general.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:16] But I think I think it's not like the Kobe thing. I just think that he he hasn't downloaded he needs to upload a personality. And I think he's he strikes me as a guy that just played sports. And so like when he's speaking, he doesn't seem genuine. It's just because he he never learned, you know.

Josh Edelman: [00:41:30] You know what kind of you know what his personality kind of like reminds me of these days. Have you ever seen Major League Two? It's like Charlie Sheen in the first half of the movie when he's dating the hot blonde girl and he's like, lost whatever that edge was. That's like Russell Wilson's like.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:47] Yeah, yeah.

Josh Edelman: [00:41:48] Personality is like Charlie.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:41:49] Especially when he's dating Ciara now. It's like when Jayson Tatum won the championship last year. And he's not a poet, right? He's a great, great basketball player. But they like everything he said in the interview was something someone else had already said. You know what I mean? So he literally said, uh, he said, we did it. And then they show, um.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:42:07] Kobe doing it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:08] Kobe or um, LeBron. And then he said, what are they going to say now? Then they show Steph saying, what are they going to say? And it's like, you won the championship and you're like, you're plagiarizing other guys who won a championship. You know what I mean? But it's just because you think that moment is supposed to be so special, and maybe it is internally, but that doesn't mean you're going to have this.

Cat Alvarado: [00:42:27] The right words.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:28] Yeah. This thumbnail, this thing that's going to be sort of epic and said throughout the ages, maybe it's just like we won. And that's what I like about Nikola Jokic. He doesn't put that pressure on himself. He just is like.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:42:37] He doesn't care.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:38] Yeah he doesn't feel the need to say something like really deep and profound. He's just we won you know. Yeah.

Josh Edelman: [00:42:44] Like I'd like to go not from here.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:42:48] You have to go race horses and stuff.

Josh Edelman: [00:42:51] I would want to go back to the cold Serbian winter. Look forward to that.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:42:57] Thank you, Josh, for coming on with us. Please tell people where they can follow you and catch your stuff and everything.

Josh Edelman: [00:43:02] Thank you guys for having me on. This is super fun. You can follow me on Instagram at Josh Edelman Comedy on most of the other apps at The Edlemeister. I, uh, you can find my documentary mentally al on Amazon. I have a special coming out soon called The Jew Rogan Experience.

Cat Alvarado: [00:43:22] We truly appreciate your support and enthusiasm for our quirky, mysterious, fun filled journey. Your curiosity and engagement make this podcast a joy to create. Stay tuned for more intriguing stories and remember to share, subscribe and leave a review. Until next time, keep wondering and stay unofficially official.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:42] In the next episode, we'll be asking the question are there real stargates on Earth? Have you guys ever asked yourself that question?

Josh Edelman: [00:43:47] I don't know where to startgate is.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:43:48] I'm asking it now. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:49] From the movie Stargate. You know, like.

Cat Alvarado: [00:43:50] What's a Stargate?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:53] That's where, like, aliens come through to, like.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:43:56] Like a portal.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:43:56] Like a portal?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:43:57] Yeah.

Josh Edelman: [00:43:57] I think it's more likely that there are human robots on Earth right now.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:44:02] Oh, yeah.

Cat Alvarado: [00:44:02] I think the Stargate is at the Republican National Convention. It's where they get their wives who look all. Misshapen in the face.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:44:08] I like that. Sometimes I think I'm a robot, to be honest.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:44:12] You're a robot.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:44:13] I think I could be, and I think I think I could be a robot. And maybe robots are more humane than the humans. Just putting that out there.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:44:20] There you go. All right, well, thank you guys. Thank you everybody. Thank you Josh.

Josh Edelman: [00:44:23] Thank you.

Cat Alvarado: [00:44:24] Thank you.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:44:24] Bye everybody.

Cat Alvarado: [00:44:25] Bye.