Special Episode Cat's BFF The Sam Haskell Jr Case

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:04] All righty. Welcome, welcome, welcome. This is an emergency pod. This is out of the blue. And it's super exciting because this is something that Cat wanted to talk about. So, Cat, why don't you take it away?

Cat Alvarado: [00:00:14] All right. So. Okay, the other day, I'm on the road doing jokes, and I come back to my hotel room, open my phone, and I see a murder has happened. A body has been discovered in a dumpster of a dismembered woman. And the suspected murderer is none other than Sam Haskell Jr. And I go, where have I heard that name? And it all comes rushing back. I went to summer camp with his sister back in high school, and I met the guy. You guys. I met him at her pool party, and then he messaged me on AIM and he seemed like he was flirting. Maybe. But I was a super, super Christian kid and like 14. And I went to, like, Bible camp like three times a week, and he stopped talking to me immediately. I was like, want to come to church? And like, we never heard from again.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:09] Was he cute. 

Cat Alvarado: [00:01:10] At the time? Like, right now, if you look at his TikToks and what he looks like now, he looks like he's done a lot of meth, but he was actually a very cute guy at 17. Like too cool for school. Always wear sunglasses in class.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:25] That's a really bad sign. And this took place in Los Angeles, right?

Cat Alvarado: [00:01:28] Yeah. So I grew up in the San Fernando Valley, as did he like their family. So the reason why this murder is, like, so high profile is his dad, Sam Haskell's senior, was a huge Hollywood agent who represented people like Dolly Parton and George Clooney and Ray Romano, among others. So they lived in the fancy part of town, like next door to Ice Cube in Encino.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:51] Tell me a little bit about who is he accused of killing? Allegedly.

Cat Alvarado: [00:01:54] So he's accused of killing his wife and her parents, which is incredibly sad. They have kids together and the kids are okay. But yeah, he murdered his wife, and he actually he dismembered her. And the parents, they haven't found the parents bodies yet. Just hers.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:02:15] Why haven't they found the bodies?

Cat Alvarado: [00:02:16] Great question. Probably he did a good job of dismembering them. He did the job.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:02:21] The story is that he's accused of giving body parts to in bags and giving them to homeless people, right. And having them dump the body.

Cat Alvarado: [00:02:29] Okay, so this is this is what happened. He called day laborers like from. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:02:33] Day laborers. That's right.

Cat Alvarado: [00:02:34] Home Depot to come over and move the body parts, they were full. So bags full of body parts. He tells them that the bags are full of rocks and they take $500 in payment, and they go just around the corner because they're like, these bags are full of something mushy, and this is not rocks. So they open the bags, look inside, and they see a belly button and they're like these, these are body parts. And so they went right back to his place. Give him back the bags and give him back the $500. And they're like, we want nothing to do with this. And we're leaving. And they went to the cops and they went to two police stations, actually, and there wasn't anybody there who could help them. And finally they were like, you should call 911. So they called 911. And so the cops were like.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:21] Even when there's I guess, I guess you can't save them because, you know, for the cops, they could say, well, the person's already dead, right? But even in this situation, they still try to pass the buck. It's it's like, no, that's those guys job. No. That's like it's it's outrageous.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:03:35] And I'm impressed that the day laborers went to the police because, you know, a lot of them may have, may or may not have legal issues in terms of citizenship and the fact that they would go to the police regardless is like it says a lot about the kind of people that they are, that they're willing to do the right thing, even if it might not be the best thing, especially in the climate that we live in now, where people are so anti immigrants.

Cat Alvarado: [00:03:55] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:56] So, you know, they're not lying. If if he had robbed a bank or something they wouldn't go to the cops. You know what I mean. Because like they're only going to jeopardize one. They're good people. But also it's like someone died. It's like this trumps whatever my legal status in the country is. You know what I mean?

Cat Alvarado: [00:04:13] It's also so scary and grisly because these are. It's a dismemberment. That is insanely difficult thing to do physically. And it must be so scary to see.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:04:23] I don't understand why did he pay people to do it. He could have just done it himself. It's would have been much easier if he just went around and dumped it in the ocean and and a trash can here and there, and I mean, it would have been way easier and much safer. He probably would never got caught.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:34] He would have got caught for sure.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:04:36] No, because no body, no crime. That's 99% of the. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:40] I know But three bodies disappear. You know, you can mount enough circumstantial evidence to convict. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:04:46] It's Really, really hard. I mean, even, like, I was just listening to this true crime case from the from the 2000. I mean, this is like, granted, like ten, 15 years ago. But at that time when this guy was convicted of killing his friend or this guy he was doing business with, he was the second case in New York City. That was a murder with no body. So, I mean, I mean, it's much I mean, it's really, really hard because they basically the defense will just say, well, they're alive.

Cat Alvarado: [00:05:11] What's really spooky is like that. They are so confidently convicting or charging him with three, three murders, even though they only have technically one body, because they say that when the cops went into the crime scene in his house that there was enough evidence of three murders, which is insane, like that place must have been covered in blood and body parts and remains like where they can't even figure out what remains belong to whom. So they don't have, like, a full body, but they're like, they. Someone definitely died here. I it's so gruesome to even imagine the horror scene.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:47] And then you Got to ask, was he trying to get caught, or was he so tired from the energy it took to hide the first two bodies that he kind of like? I'll get these guys that are kind of off the grid and it almost. And the fact that they had to go to 2 or 3 different precincts and then call 911, you know, his strategy in that regard was almost sound because no one would listen to them, or the first person they showed they told should have been like on it, and they should have called the other people or went to, you know what I mean?

Cat Alvarado: [00:06:13] Yeah. Because by the time the LAPD showed up to the house, the bags were gone, all the body parts were gone. And they're like, well, no crime here. And they left. And it wasn't until the next day or a couple of days later when an unhoused person was going through a dumpster and found the torso, that the cops finally took it seriously and went to the house to arrest the guy. And then they opened the door and they see, like, obviously crime scene.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:38] Well. And that's the thing. Like, why couldn't they go in? You can get an emergency warrant. It almost reeks of kind of, I don't know, maybe privilege. I don't want to say that for sure, but it's just odd that they didn't like how many times do day laborers walk into a precinct and say, we saw a dead body? That probably never happens. Never.

Cat Alvarado: [00:06:55] Like one of the challenges right now. And like, I don't know why it's happening, but my boyfriend lives in downtown L.A. And he says that at some point there were, you know, these people selling drugs right outside his building, and people from his building would go to the cops and say, these guys are selling drugs. We don't want them here. They're dangerous. But because the cops never were able to see it themselves and they couldn't see it themselves because they parked like a van right behind them. So the only way like the cops would be able to see them would be to walk up. But if they walked up, they would hide the drugs and just be like, we're selling candy bars. What are you talking about? They really have a lot of strict laws that you cannot do X, y, z unless you literally, like, see the crime happen and the cops are saying their hands are tied. I mean, I don't know.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:07:42] I mean, that's why I like, I mean, the, you know, some of my favorite videos to watch are the First Amendment auditors who like to bother police. Right. And one of the things I've learned from them, like they have to actually yeah, they have to see you commit a crime or be in the process of committing a crime. They can't just, you know, assume that you've committed a crime and then go into a place. Cat, how does it feel to have known a mean three kills? Is a serial killer. So how does it feel to have known a serial killer?

Cat Alvarado: [00:08:07] You guys. Wow. So I will say he had a vibe. He had a vibe back then, and it was, like, weirdly magnetic. But also, something troubled me. I didn't know what it was, but I was, like, kind of drawn to him. But also, like, this is a bad idea and I'm so glad I listened to the part of me that was like, this seems like a bad idea because at the time, like just because I was a church girl didn't mean I had to present that way, right? If I wanted to pretend to be cool, I could have easily pretended to be cool and flirted back, but instead I was like, purposefully like, abundantly annoying in my identity at the time. But yeah, I was fully capable of, like, being cool if I wanted to be, and I didn't because I wanted to push him away.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:50] But what I like about that too is that, like you're honest about there was some sort of magnetic thing there, but the, the whatever the fear was trumped that and I think, I think a lot of people, especially women at a young age, you know, we sort of like glorify that danger vibe.

Cat Alvarado: [00:09:07] Yeah. And he had that danger vibe. He had a very like when I think about, you know, how they describe psychopaths and sociopaths, a couple of key characteristics are that they have like a glib sense of humor and kind of a blank face because they don't have emotion, they don't feel emotion. And he definitely had that blank face, like, just like no emotion at the time because he was like a cute young guy. He just seemed cool.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:33] And one of the things I tell all my writing classes, I also give like life advice, especially around crime. It's okay to say no, it's okay not to go with people. It's okay to be rude. If you have a funny feeling about an individual, it's better to ask for forgiveness later than be killed. I've read so many cases of like a woman going somebody's house. They don't trust the guy. They don't like the guy, they're feared the guy, but they go because they don't want to make a scene, or they don't want to make it awkward between the person and I tell them all the time, you have to listen to that part of yourself. And you know, and if that person says. No. Then you even know more. It's okay to be rude for safety. I think too many women are taught to be accommodating. You have to be nice. You have to be friendly. And that's bullshit, because that's. That's how you get yourself killed.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:13] But also, you know Obviously people can lie and people can bear false witness, but make people say what they mean. I think, like the strong silent type, for instance, that gets glorified and there's nothing wrong with that. But at some point, don't be silent. Say who you are, say what you mean. Say what your intentions are. I think people love the blank slate face because you can project onto it.

Cat Alvarado: [00:10:34] Yes, that is huge. People do that and it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:37] Happens in the movies, right? It's like a big screen. The actor's not doing anything with his face and we're projecting what we want onto that.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:43] It's hello Kitty.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:44] Yeah, it's hello Kitty.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:46] No mouth.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:46] Exactly which.

Cat Alvarado: [00:10:47] No, I've heard that. And I've heard also like with sociopaths, people date like sociopaths and narcissists. And it's a similar thing where, you know, they don't have a lot of emotion and people project onto it. And I've had that experience in dating that type of guy. Luckily, I've never dated a psychopath because I'm still here. But in dating guys who had a similar kind of an off vibe, when I have gone with it, it's never been good. It always results in like, he's got like five other girlfriends and we're all lucky we didn't get chlamydia. Yeah. Run, ladies, if you have that vibe from a guy, run. There's plenty of wonderful dudes out there who are not that way.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:25] I just looked up something online and it said that, according to the New York Post, it said that the average person can unknowingly walk past 36 murders in their lifetime.

Cat Alvarado: [00:11:32] Whoa, I believe it, I believe it, and and sometimes like.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:36] Twice that many. But go ahead.

Cat Alvarado: [00:11:38] Just being a stand up comic, probably. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:41] Being in New Yorker, being a New Yorker, because I've, I know, I personally know over 40 people that have been murdered. So. But anyway.

Cat Alvarado: [00:11:47] Wow.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:48] Wait. Murdered or murdered? Been murdered.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:50] Murdered shot.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:51] Oh, okay.

Cat Alvarado: [00:11:52] Oh, gosh. Wow. That's intense.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:54] You know. Do you have you known any serial killers?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:57] Well, if the number is three, then I probably know them by one degree of separation. But I don't think they were ever random kills, so I don't think that would count.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:07] It was no random kills. It doesn't matter. It's three people with cooling. Well, actually, I don't think. I don't think you're. I don't think this guy is a serial killer is usually I think the definition is three kills with a break in between. Right. You can't because. Because three in a row, three at one time is a.

Cat Alvarado: [00:12:20] That's a mass.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:21] A mass spree killer.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:12:22] Yeah. It's hard to say. I may know of one. Yeah. But he had it was like everyone he killed, he probably had a problem with.

Cat Alvarado: [00:12:30] That's different. That's almost like organized crime. It's not right.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:12:32] Exactly, exactly. 

Cat Alvarado: [00:12:34] Sort of psychology. But I do have some other, like, social connections with this guy. We both went to the same university, Cal State Northridge, and while I did not interact with him in college, some of my friends did. So apparently a little bit about his vibe. Everyone thought he was weird. He always wore sunglasses in class and a wife beater. And Jordan's always, always, always, always, which is a really weird habit to have. Like, people change what they wear on a day to day basis. Not him. He was always this person. One time he disrespected my a friend of a friend and my buddy almost beat him up, but then he apologized. So that is a story I heard. I heard he threatened somebody with a machete.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:21] Sounds like a good Dude

Cat Alvarado: [00:13:22] right? Great guy, great guy.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:24] How do you. That's the thing. Like, how do you even have a machete?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:27] Gardening work. Gardening?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:28] Gardening. Yeah. Guess.

Cat Alvarado: [00:13:29] Yeah, well, we'll get to that. But I also want to share this other story. So those are some of like the college college years stories I've heard also. Okay. So do you know Adam Hunter? Do you guys know Adam Hunter?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:41] I do, and I saw his post too. Yeah,

Cat Alvarado: [00:13:43] Okay. So Adam has a story he's been telling on stage. He's a comedian about his daughter. His daughter had a pet bunny rabbit, and the pet bunny rabbit died of natural causes, and she went to school. Sad about her bunny. And this kid in her class starts taunting her and following her around going, I killed your bunny, I killed your bunny, I killed your bunny. And she starts crying. When she goes home, she's crying about it. And so Adam calls the teacher and the principal, and they all have a talk with the student and the student's parents. Guess who the father of that kid was? This fucking Sam Haskell junior.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:20] Wow.

Cat Alvarado: [00:14:20] The kid is a psychopath. Possibly.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:22] Allegedly.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:23] Yeah, it's hard to say. Is that. Yeah, because he also could have learned that behavior from his dad. Or got. 

Cat Alvarado: [00:14:28] To be a Bully. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:29] From genes. Yeah,

Cat Alvarado: [00:14:29] Which is creepy. And it makes you think about, like, the genetic element of psychopathy because remembering his sister, who of all the characters here in this thing, I interacted with her the most. She was a fantastic stage performer. She's an actress. And I remember we were like 14, 15 years old. She just has this magnetic stage presence at age 14, 15. She's such a great performer, so interesting to watch on stage. And at the time I kind of took it for granted. I was just like, oh, wow, she's she's great. And looking back on it from my age now, in my 30s, I'm like, God, why was she such a magnetic performer? Was is she somehow touched by this like some element of this spectrum of, you know, psychopathy? And then another acquaintance of mine, who was a friend of the family, apparently used to go to Shabbat dinner with them on a regular basis and said that the father, who I have never met the dad, but the father also had some magnetic, weird, different energy to him as well. And I've read a lot that a lot of times sociopaths end up reaching the high ranks of of executive levels and the corporate. World,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:45] And then they fall apart. They usually fall apart around 40 because.

Cat Alvarado: [00:15:48] Interesting.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:48] Well, the reason being is that sociopaths or psychopaths, what happens is that at some point you need people that can vouch for you, right? Like cat's, cat's, a good person. I think she should be the CEO or CFO or whatever. The problem is that they burn so many bridges that that they eventually or people just feel weird about them. They eventually fizzle because they reach a certain height and then they can't go anymore. You know, you could jump, you could kind of like undercut people and it's okay and all that good stuff. But I was going to say about the actor thing, it's really interesting because I have a family member who I believe is a sociopath. And and one of the things that happens when my mom died, this gentleman and I use the word gentleman very loosely here, fell on the ground and he was just screaming and crying, and it looked like a Korean drama where like, you know, people were overly like, overly like sad and just it seems like even like the nurse, this is like, right after my mom died, the nurse was like, what's wrong with this guy? And then I was talking to my friend who is a who's a, a really well known psychologist and therapist. He was telling me that a lot of times people like, like this guy who are sociopaths or psychopaths, what happens is they act the way they think people are supposed to act. It's called as if like, this is how people would behave, as if someone was sad. And so a lot of times like it's so it's so it's a little bit too much. It's like ingenuine and it was like,

Cat Alvarado: [00:17:02] Oh, okay.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:17:03] So like sometimes I mean, not always, but some people I think are just better at like acting at it. But there's also that where it's like it was like just a little bit like way too much, way too like, you know, because my mom had Alzheimer's. My mom was sick, like, she was in hospice. It's not like this is out of the blue, right?

Cat Alvarado: [00:17:18] She's your mom.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:17:19] So but it was like, so much it was so much stuff there. But anyway. Yeah like that. That was a really eye opening experience.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:17:26] And it's like I just saw something on I just watched I watched a lot of true crime and there's this guy who killed his mom. They they started with him as a, as a youth. And his mom spoiled him. His mom loved him. And like, he killed a bird with his bare hands. And this usually seems like there's always something in a childhood that really is, is some sort of a tell. Not always, but it seems like sometimes like that goes hand in hand. So like in your case, Koji, it's almost like. Like that would be evidence. But what you might have evidence from before that, that you saw this person do and you didn't know what box to put it in. And then now it all makes sense kind of thing.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:18:02] Oh, 100%. Yeah. We had we had a lot of experiences that later only later are you like, oh yeah, that's it. Because one of the issues with a lot of sociopaths and psychopaths with kids is that the parents usually just like school shooters and stuff. They are often like people say things like, oh, that's just Bob being Bob, as opposed to being.

Cat Alvarado: [00:18:20] Excuses for. It. It challenging it.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:18:22] But the problem is that so they can never once you're like, if you're a sociopath, you can never not be a sociopath. But what you can do is you can help them point it in the right direction. So like. 

Cat Alvarado: [00:18:29] Or at least Understand consequences like, look, don't kill people you crimes.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:18:33] Yeah. If you do this you'll go to jail. Yeah. So it's more like it's more like like you're not talking to their emotional side or their their good side. You're talking more about just being practical. It's not good.

Cat Alvarado: [00:18:42] Self-preservation. Don't do. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:18:44] It's not good to go to jail. If you go to jail, your life is over. That's that's what it is. I know you spoke to somebody about your about about this case, and you want to share some of the things that, that that you found out that you think.

Cat Alvarado: [00:18:54] Yeah. So you guys mentioned therapists. Well, I actually just got off a call with my therapist and I asked her a little bit about Sam Haskell Junior and what she thought about the case. And so this is from a professional clinical psychologist. Her first, first thing she had to say is that no one dismembers a body the first go around, even psychopaths.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:19:16] Wow.

Cat Alvarado: [00:19:17] So she said it's because it's it's so hard to do physically. And so you don't do that unless you've had practice taking things apart. And it's also so gory, like it's it's just like another level. It usually doesn't happen until somebody's been habituated. Like, think about a drug addiction.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:19:37] Right.

Cat Alvarado: [00:19:38] So he's habituated himself to less gory killings and eventually, like he needs more and more blood and guts to satisfy this rush, he gets out of it. And then she said that the way he got caught, it's likely he wanted to get caught. He wanted the headlines because at some point, these killers want fame for what they've done. And that would. Check out, I think, with who he is and how he was brought up, kind of in the shadow of such huge celebrities for his entire life. I mean, think about that. If Dolly Parton is in your house on a regular basis, you probably feel like shit. George Clooney, Ray Romano, all these big names are just always around.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:20:19] And definitely you feel that way. If you can't reconcile that with sort of like, I think we've been we've come to like have this disdain for being normal. Like we call people, excuse me? We call people like basic bitches. And everything average is looked down upon when in reality most people are average. So yeah, like if you have parents that tell you and I'm not saying this happened, but parents who tell you you're great and they worship you, and then you see these people who we think are great, but then your life is sort of like just sort of being kind of regular, you know, and sometimes you, some of those people might become agents or managers just so they can, like, have those weird control over those people or be close to it. Or they could, you know, really go off the rails like this guy seems seems to have done.

Cat Alvarado: [00:21:04] I mean, it looking at the siblings, there is almost like a, like the good one and the bad one, because she reacted to growing up in that environment around celebrities in a healthier way. I mean, it's arguable how healthy she went passionately into performing and she's like, okay, I'm going to be just like them. One day I'll be famous too. And she, like, really poured herself into the craft of of dance and singing and acting. And she was great at it. And overall she seemed like a nice person. I'll say she she didn't seem like a psychopath.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:21:36] Right.

Cat Alvarado: [00:21:37] Whereas he went he kind of adapted in the unhealthy way of, of going to the dark side there. But, you know, he was probably born messed up. But yeah, he at some point he wanted that fame. He wanted the headlines that that's the take that my therapist has. And she said that he probably started out kind of like what we hear with serial killers with small, small bodies or small animals killing the animals and then going up from there. But he's probably killed before. We just don't know about it because he got away with it. And honestly, if you look around Los Angeles, you just go downtown. There's there's so many unhoused people who are on drugs. I mean, if you walk around Pershing Square, for instance, downtown or by the LA Public Library, you'll just see homeless people on, I believe it's something called tranq or heroin, and they're just laying there.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:28] And they won't be missed necessarily, because even if they are missed, it's like, well, did they die? Did they just go to Santa Monica? Did they go to another place?

Cat Alvarado: [00:22:37] They could have OD'd?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:22:38] Yeah. Like, you know, it's interesting. That reminds me of this famous singer who I guess got caught doing coke in a bathroom with some people. And he. And he was like, oh, it was my first time, you know, and I joke, I was joking with my friend, and I was like, I don't think you do that for that. I don't think anything you do for the first time is in the bathroom. I don't think, you know, I mean, you don't even shit for the first time in the bathroom. You do that in like, a diaper and you build your way up to that. So, like, I don't know, maybe it was his first time, but it felt like that's the same thing with dismemberment. Like, you're not a first timer. You know,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:06] The Kind of the killing of the small animals. That was from a study called the McDonald's, McDonald's Triad Study or something like that. But it's from England. And actually there is a lot of flaws and problems with that theory. So the theory was that you hurt small animals, you start fires. And there's another one that I can't remember off the top of my head.

Cat Alvarado: [00:23:21] Piss your pants.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:22] Yeah, yeah.

Cat Alvarado: [00:23:23] Bedwetting.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:24] Bedwetting. Yeah. But the problem, one of the problems with the study was that the people didn't just study like serial killers or people who killed multiple people. They just took a large cross-section of criminals that were in the English. Uh, so it's like prison.

Cat Alvarado: [00:23:38] It just means you're more likely to be a criminal. But not necessarily. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:23:41] Not Necessarily like a serial killer, which is what it's been used at. All right, well, let's finish up, give some advice on either how to stay safe from people who are trying to hurt you or, and or try to get away with murder. Let's start with you, Cat.

Cat Alvarado: [00:23:54] My advice listen to your gut. If you ever like someone, gives you the heebie jeebies or rubs you the wrong way, go ahead and be distant. It's okay. You don't have to be friends with everybody. Run. Run away.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:24:06] Reserve judgment on people. And in that interim, like it's it's similar to what Cat said, but reserve judgment and in the interim don't have access to you. You know, I think sometimes you're right if you have an uneasy feeling. But even if you don't have an uneasy feeling, don't have no feeling at all. Just don't make a call about it until you see this person a few times, interact with different people, or you talk to other people about them, like you don't have to be besties right away. Everything is in due time, and if someone's rushing any aspect of the friendship process, it's because they're afraid you're going to find out how shitty they are. If they're solid, they're willing to wait.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:24:39] My advice is going to be from the criminal side,

Cat Alvarado: [00:24:42] Of course.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:24:43] So, um, so this is what I always tell my son this too. So this is something that I think is very important. If you commit a crime with some other person, make sure they have more to lose than you and then rat befor them. Those are the two things that you have to do, because you never want to be the person that has the most to lose. Like, you don't want to be the most famous person committing a crime because they're all your friends are going to rat on you. It's 100%. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:03] Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:25:03] Just like that's wrong with Donald Trump. Is that in Georgia? Is that all of them? It's in their interest to rat on Donald Trump. Donald Trump can't rat because he's the ultimate prize. And so as a criminal, you want to you want to rat with somebody more famous. So, you know, like I tell my son, you make the major leagues and you're not an all star, then go find an all star. They're going to care more about that guy. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:25] Right? But the only problem with that is that some people you can't rat on, they'll kill your whole family. So.

Cat Alvarado: [00:25:30] So maybe just don't commit crime.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:33] Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:25:33] But, but but in general, I mean, like, you know, I mean, even even those guys, they always rat to everybody. Rats. That's the thing. Everybody rats.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:39] Because the feds and the cops, they don't play fair either. You know, they'll put you in a position, you know.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:25:44] Yeah. I mean, and it makes sense too, because it's like, well, you could either walk away now or you're going to go 20 years. You're like, oh shit, I'm walking. You know, like I'm going to say everything I know. Right? And that's that's what's going to happen. All right. Well thank you guys for the emergency pod.

Cat Alvarado: [00:25:57] Yeah. Thank you.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:25:58] And what was the woman's name again? Who was murdered? We should say her name and we should. Our condolences to her family, you know, and and the family that's left and their kids and. Yeah, condolences to them.

Cat Alvarado: [00:26:09] Her name is Mae Mae Haskell.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:26:11] Mae Haskell. So. And I don't know what her her maiden name was, but rest in peace to me and the parents, too, if they're no longer with us.

Cat Alvarado: [00:26:20] Yeah. Yan Zan Wang and her father, Gao Xiang Li.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:26:23] All right. Thank you guys. All right.

Cat Alvarado: [00:26:25] All right. Thank you guys. Goodbye.