Special Episode We were Wrong 2Pac isn't Japanese

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:04] All right. Hi, everybody. This is an emergency pod because, well, guess not much of an emergency because this happened, like months ago by now. But Dwyane and I have come together to talk about the season two episode where we talked about who killed Tupac.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:18] Right, right. And I can't remember what we what consensus we came to.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:21] It was that Tupac was actually Japanese.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:23] Right?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:24] And that he did blackface and it was about to get caught. So he had to flee back to Japan, which I guess turned out to be false.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:29] Right? Yeah. Guess that wasn't it.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:31] But that wasn't it.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:32] But we always say maybe.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:33] Yeah, maybe. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:34] We Always say so. Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:36] Because the I mean, this is months old, like I said, but this is the true killer who hasn't been convicted. So he's an alleged.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:42] Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:43] Alleged killer was was just arrested in Vegas.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:47] Keefe Dee I think his government name might be like Dwayne. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:51] Dwayne something or other. Not you though.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:53] Not me. No, not Me.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:54] You.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:00:55] And he spells it differently. Yeah. Dwayne Keefee D Davis.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:00:58] Okay. I just thought it would be great for us to get on the pod real quick and kind of respond to this.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:01:02] It's interesting too, because it's like, I personally know people who have been killed right after a certain amount of time. You just assume that killer got away. You know, typically, I would think someone who lived that kind of life, they probably met, you know, you live by the sword, die by the sword kind of thing. So I don't I wouldn't lose sleep over it, but I wouldn't think the police would still be looking. So it's just it's just interesting. Like, why now?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:27] I don't. I don't think they were looking. I mean, I think he just he was talking about it so much.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:01:31] I know, but like. Yeah, but who flagged it because he's been talking about it for a while. Right. He's been on.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:36] 2019 or something.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:01:37] Yeah. And it's 2024 now. So maybe it just came to their attention like,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:42] No, I think. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:01:43] Every now and then I binge watched a show I didn't know about.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:45] You know, I think they were looking For evidence just because somebody talks about it on a podcast.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:01:49] Okay. Maybe they maybe they were.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:01:50] Like they started it, started an investigation.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:01:52] But it feels like there's so much out there, even with biggie. Like it feels like they have a really good idea of who did it right and the involvement, but they just don't have the proof. They don't have the proof. Maybe the biggie thing. It seems like there was like it kind of I feel like it might tie into the rampart thing.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:02:08] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:02:09] That whole scandal, you know, like it's tangential to that. But the question is, is it the cops doing a bad job because it took so long? Is it them doing a good job because they didn't drop the ball? Totally.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:02:20] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:02:20] Or is it just stop saying what you did? Like just because someone puts a microphone in front of your mouth doesn't mean you have to tell them things. Because, like, people have admitted to weird things on podcasts, like some people have admitted to like something that's tantamount to rape or at least assault. Like something about a mic in front of your face and you think no one's listening, but everyone's listening. Like,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:02:41] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:02:41] Everyone's listening. There's always a camera. That's my motto. Like, it hasn't always been my motto, but now it is. So like, if I'm in a situation, if I'm in a if I'm at a party. And this has never happened, by the way, but, you know, you hear stories. But if I was at a party and any kind of freak thing started popping off where people were being exhibitionist, I would just leave because I'm like, there's a camera somewhere, and this is someone's trying to extort me and they want me to get involved.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:03:06] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:06] So I'm going to leave. So there's no footage of me doing anything crazy.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:03:10] What was Tupac convicted of? He was convicted of being in a room while another girl was being raped. Or while girl was being raped. He. It never said that he was raped.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:03:18] He never did. But you know what's crazy about that is like God, not always, but sometimes you have. You don't realize that you've squandered your grace or your 1 or 2 chances because Big Daddy Kane told the story again. And Kane, he didn't implicate himself. But Kane told the story that happened before. Tupac was like he was maybe just starting to be Tupac, maybe still with Digital Underground. And he said there was a girl in the room, Tupac was in a room and a lot of Tupac's friends or some dudes, and the girl was obviously uncomfortable. She probably was there for like one guy and the other guys, you know, trying to like, make it a group kind of thing. And Big Daddy Kane, you can look it up. It's online. He says he walks in and some guys jumping on the bed naked, and Kane was like he was bigger than them at the time. He's older and he was more. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:04:03] Og. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:04] Og and he was like more famous at the time. So he basically sent them all out of the room and then like consoled the girl. And, but he said he actually slept with her too. So that's kind of dangerous. Like, and that's what happened to Tupac. Like any I tell young men or any man, like, if you're with a girl, like anybody can say anything about you. Once that door closes, no one knows what happened. So if you don't trust that person, don't take the chance because they can lie or they can just have a different idea of what happened.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:04:33] Yeah,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:04:34] But to lessen your chances of being falsely accused. And I'm not saying every accusation is false. Some accusations are true. But that girl is your responsibility until she's out of your, like, custody, quote unquote. Meaning you have to make sure she gets in her car or in the Uber, like from from when she leaves with you, wherever. If it's like a hookup thing from when she leaves with you, she's your responsibility until you put her in the Uber or her car. And so if anything, like you can't just, like, leave her in a room and. Fall asleep in some other guys walk in.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:05:05] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:05] You have to make sure she. She's either gives consent or she gets to her car. And I think people don't think of it that way. But even that story that that that big Daddy Kane story, you're like, what happened to the girl? He's like, well, I did my thing and I left and I was like, what did those guys come back? Did you?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:05:19] Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:05:19] And I think when you're young, you don't think, you know, think in those terms. But so yeah, with Tupac I just think he was, you know, he was very, very young and dynamic. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:05:27] And yeah, I Mean he was only 25 when he died.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:28] Yeah. Yeah. And and super dynamic. So I think like. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:05:32] People Were drawn to Him. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:33] Sometimes I thank God. Like I remember one time I tell this story, I was trying to hook up with this girl high school, and I didn't know I couldn't get the condom on, I think I think I was rolling it down the wrong way, to be honest.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:05:44] You're putting on your finger. You're like, what? Is this not working?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:05:46] No, no. You know, like, I'm just kidding. It rolls one way and not the other way. Yeah. And so then, like, I was so the moment because I had never used a condom before, but it was so much anxiety that I wasn't aroused. I couldn't get it on. And it was it was like a blessing because I didn't try to I didn't do it in spite. I wasn't like, we're still going to have sex. I was like, well, you know, and I didn't realize you could just chill and, you know, you just don't know. So it didn't happen at all. And then I girl was like pregnant like six months later, but not by me, you know what I mean? And so, so sometimes you dodge a bullet and what I mean. And so what I'm saying is, if I was famous at 21, I don't know if I would have been able to, like, decipher who was who was like, who was who was my friend, who wasn't my friend. All those because it's just too many people coming at you. So it's like a blessing to like, not have that happen in a sense.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:06:35] Well, and when. You're famous, everything's multiplied by five. So I mean, I think the question with Tupac's case is going to be, was it just because Orlando Anderson got jumped at the 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:43] Right, right. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:06:44] Casino, or was there some bigger nefarious thing?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:06:47] Yeah, I've heard people actually one of Puffy's old bodyguards who he's always on. Excuse me, he's always on YouTube saying things. I forget his name. Gean, I think, is his name. He his theory is that they're trying to somehow get to P Diddy.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:07:01] Yeah, but what's The Occam's razor? Occam's razor is that he jumped.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:04] He just jumped the guy.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:07:05] He just jumped the guy.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:06] Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:07:06] And what's interesting actually was I was we were listening to this, this NPR thing on the way to Vegas with my son, and we were just, you know, all he hears is the Tupac songs and stuff. The thing that shocked him the most was actually that Tupac and Suge and all those guys jumped Orlando Anderson.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:21] Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:07:21] Because I think it was just a different world, like back then, like not just a gang thing or whatever, but I think, like back then there was just more fighting.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:29] Yeah, yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:07:29] You know, like, I would like I was like, yeah, I got in fights all the time, like, you know, like when I was like 16, 17 and it was just like a thing and like we go over there, we fight. And like, I mean, if kids fought now, like my son's in sixth grade, if he fought now, it would be like the biggest story in this town that like 2 or 3 kids got in a fight. But back then it was like a thing. And I was like, yeah, he probably Orlando Anderson or whoever, I don't know for a fact, but like, he might have said something or said it said a set or something, and then all of a sudden, like it became a thing. Maybe not.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:07:55] Yeah. And the thing is that I know people who I know people personally who don't have a big family. Right? Or they have like a small immediate family and sort of a big extended family. And some of those people kind of latch on to every other thing. It's like, I think Tupac moved around a lot. And so he had so many associations.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:08:16] Yeah

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:17] more than most people would have. And I think he just would, like, consume something and become it.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:08:22] Yeah, like a gangster. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:23] Like Drake does that too. Like Drake will say a rhyme and then like, you know, from all accounts he has some family in the South, but then he'll rhyme and you're like, It's Drake from down south, like with a with a little exposure to something. He can represent it.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:08:35] Yeah,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:08:36] Because that's how smart and talented he is. And same thing with Tupac.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:08:39] Tupac went to an Art school right in Baltimore.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:41] But his album before like before that, like the main one that blew up and before the Def Jam albums, he was rapping. It felt like he was in New Yorker. I mean, which he was.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:08:50] He was a New Yorker.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:08:50] Yeah. But it was like every reference was taking the train, and it was it was literally like, you, you put the headphones on and you're like, oh, this guy is from New York.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:00] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:09:00] And then the next album, oh, this guy is from Oakland. Next album. Oh, this guy is from LA, you know what I mean?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:06] He's a chameleon.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:09:06] He's a chameleon. He got stuck in that gangster.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:08] And I think it's because he's, I mean, him, his mom and half brother or whatever, or sister, I think. And just kind of yeah, there wasn't a lot and he was always trying to be something. I mean, that's why I think if he had lived, I don't think he would have been doing rap.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:09:19] Yeah, yeah. Who knows. Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:20] Yeah. And I think. He would have done I think he would have been doing something bigger and more.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:09:23] Right, right. He might have been like Will Smith with,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:26] With a little more political edge.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:09:28] Yeah. Like not as not as sort of like easygoing. Not as sort of like smooth. You know, his father, his biological father is still alive.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:35] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:09:35] And like, I guess he thought his biological father had died, which is amazing. So when he got shot that time, when he lived, I think it was that time his biological father came to the hospital.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:09:44] Oh. Oh, I. Didn't know that.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:09:45] Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. And he looks like him and his mom had basically lied to him about that. And so I guess they made amends. And just that whole thing, like being that talented is not always a good thing because there's no course on how to vet People.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:03] Yeah. I mean That's why. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:04] Other than your parents.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:05] But that's why I think biggie was lucky to have puffy, because puffy would tell him. Oh, yeah, in a way, but puffy would tell him, oh, that song is wack. Redo it. Let's put this hook on. Let's do it again. Like Tupac had no one in his life that was like, that song sucks because, you know, like I love like all, like All Eyes On Me is like the album that like, blew up on Death Row,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:20] But but also he was Just doing song after Song. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:22] And half the songs aren't good.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:23] Yeah, yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:24] Like, you know, like mean I love Tupac and half the songs aren't good.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:26] But also it's like other than talent and genes, there's a reason why so many NBA players have NBA fathers. Like not all of them, but shockingly high amount. And it's because they know how to do it. Navigating those waters. Yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:39] You know, like where you do, how you train, how you do things now. Yeah. No, I mean, it makes sense. And I mean, there's lots of stories where, you know, puffy would tell a biggie like, oh, you have to rap for the girls,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:10:48] Right?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:10:49] Right. And oh, why don't you do this? He takes a hook from like, an 80s song and puts it on, and all of a sudden it's like it's, you know, that's why, like, if you look at, like, I'm a Tupac guy, but you look at biggie song, every song is dope, you know, on all his albums when he was alive.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:01] Biggie also he wouldn't like he wouldn't freestyle.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:04] Yeah. No. Of course. Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:05] He just wasn't going to put anything out there that wasn't.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:08] But we don't Know because everything was under puffy.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:10] Right, right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:11] Puffy wouldn't let him put anything out. We don't know what what he would have done if it was just him.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:14] Absolutely.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:15] And I have a feeling he's an MC. He would have just been like, all right, let's record a track. Put it down. All right. Cool. You know?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:20] But but see, there's two things, right? There's the music and then there's like how you live. And you also need that because from all accounts, the whole thing that started the beef with him and biggie is. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:29] When he got shot

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:30] when he got shot. But from all accounts, biggie visited him when he was shot.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:33] Yeah, but it was. It's just what Tupac thought.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:36] Because when he first got shot, like in New York. And it's like, I'm not saying maybe biggie didn't do all he could do, but Biggie and Pac were both like men. Like they're my age. Basically, they're like men from inner cities who. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:11:49] They're friends.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:11:49] They're not. They're not soft, but they're not like big time gangsters. Like, yeah, maybe Tupac had a gun charge here and there and biggie sold drugs. But then there's another level of gangster like guys who are older than us, who are like killers. Guys who, like, really the first guys who sold crack or the guys who were selling heroin in the 70s. And so there's levels to this. And if you're like 19, there's a 25 year old killer who you don't want any parts of, like, those kind of people had access to him. And just because big knew them, you know, big wasn't like I think from all accounts, big was like, watch out for those guys. And then it seems like when Suge came in, everything got,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:26] Yeah, everything got twisted,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:12:27] Got twisted around. Yeah. And and I'm sure puffy. I'm sure everyone wishes they could do things differently on both sides.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:33] Yeah. Both sides. People were good on both sides. Right,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:12:36] Right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:36] I remember I was telling my son about like when I was in college, like we'd get in fights about East Coast, West Coast stuff.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:12:42] Right, right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:42] And I'd be like, what was I fighting about? That's like, no, I have no skin in the game, really. Like I'm not even like, you know, like I'm not making money from, like, a Death Row album or something.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:12:51] It's so weird that this guy that represents the West.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:53] Was from New York.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:12:54] He's from New York, and he has ties here, but his ties are more Oakland ties, right?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:12:58] Yeah. I mean, Baltimore is where. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:00] Baltimore is. High school, and that's where he knew Jada from. And that's what makes him so special. But it's also like mean. And at your lowest point, jail is got to be your lowest point. So and that's scary because whoever comes to get you you're going to be loyal to them.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:14] Yeah. Even if it was the wrong guy.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:16] Even if this is the wrong guy, even if they put you there. I'm not saying that that happened, but like, it's just a time where it's it's so hard to be clear in that moment.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:25] Well, that's Why I wanted I wish he would he was alive because I think he would have done amazing things actually, if he if he because I think he was smart, he was charismatic and he was passionate.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:34] Yeah. And it's always that theory that some people like because like some people think puff did it, some people think Suge did it. But how are you going to call a hit when you're in the car? I get that that's like brilliant, because no one would suspect that. But like, it hit, you might get hit. No matter. You have to really trust that guy who's shooting.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:13:51] Which I think he did get grazed or something, but I don't think he got hurt. Yeah, but yeah, but.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:13:54] And it's like it's your cash cow. But I think it really speaks to words having power and like, comedy things. We write everything you do. Like, what are you saying? You know, you're saying the thing that's going to get bring the right energy back.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:08] Yeah. I mean, I was playing on the way to Las Vegas. We're playing hit him up. I was playing it for my son.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:13] Oh, wow.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:13] And it was like it was funny because it was like, you know, like my son asked me like, what is what does that mean? After, like, you know, I fucked your bitch, you fat motherfucker. Right? And I was like, well, it means that he's saying that he hooked. He had sex with his wife. And like, it's just like. And trying to explain. I'm like. And then the more I tried to explain, I was like, yeah, it's hard to explain,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:29] Right?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:30] But. But it also mean it spoke. It speaks a lot about that time.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:34] Oh yeah.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:34] And that and that growing up, I mean, like obviously we grew up differently, but just that, that like that attitude and you know, like I was trying to explain to even the music itself was like political like. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:43] And testosterone. Testosterone. When you're first getting testosterone, you know, these are like. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:49] Yeah. And violence was different.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:50] Yeah. These are like they're not like boys with men problems.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:54] Yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:54] You know what I mean.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:14:55] And then money. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:14:56] And then money. And it's not a good mix at all. Yeah, but but anyway, I don't know if the guy I think the guy talked himself into a conviction and. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:03] Which is stupid, so.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:04] But maybe he'll shed more light on it. That's the good thing. If he's if they offer him a deal, you know. And let's stop calling everybody a snitch. I think the word is overused.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:13] Well, he snitched On himself, so he snitched on himself. Can ou snich on yourself.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:16] But also, if the people in the car Orlando died in some other, some unrelated thing. So if the people in the car are either dead or already in jail and there are other people involved, maybe he could just shed light on it. And maybe it's just as simple as you beat up our friend and we got back at you that same night.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:33] Yeah. Which makes the most sense.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:35] Which makes the most sense.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:35] Mean I was convinced he was in Japan. But I guess we'll officially say that our unofficial story was.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:43] But. But here's the thing. It doesn't negate that, though,

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:45] Okay?

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:46] Because he shot him and then he. The only people that know if he really died are people in the hospital.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:50] Yeah. So it could have been somebody else. And he could've just went back to Japan.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:15:53] He could have shot Pac. Pac could have lived. They went To Japan and just Said, I'm out of Here.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:15:57] Yeah. This is way too violent for me. It's like the there's always. I haven't seen him lately, but you see, sometimes, like Japanese tourists come and they're wearing, like, super baggy shorts or baggy pants and like, the, the bandana and like, I'm like, dude, you look like you're like a gangster,

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:10] Right?

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:16:11] Like, like it's almost like you like, think this is what people look like, and it's like. But it's kind of like, offensive. And, I mean, nobody gets shot over the clothes as much as, like the 80s here, but.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:20] Right, right.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:16:21] But it's like it's just like, oh my God. Like, you just thought the music video was like America. But yeah.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:26] Yeah. It's like, well, it's like when culture and commerce clash. You know, my thing is you put those images out there, you know, you don't control how they come back. Like anything you put out, you don't really control how it's consumed and how it comes back.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:16:39] Yeah, exactly. 

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:40] So. 

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:16:41] Cool. All right. Well, it was great talking to you, Dwayne.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:42] You too, man.

Koji Steven Sakai: [00:16:43] Thank you.

Dwayne Perkins: [00:16:43] Bye. Thank you.